2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[CMSMJ1]

https://www.planetf1.com/features/f1-20 ... on-testing

Don't know how accurate these numbers are...interpret them as you like.

How's about you share your thoughts, preview or a precis of that link - as some people might not be able to access it, or canont due to work blocks etc?

is it volumes of school dinners eaten in Cumbria? Numbers of left handed gloves that are lost on train journeys?

Would be much nicer for everyone to know what that was, even at a basic level, to give them a reaon to want to clock on that link?

[Emag]

I kind of doubt these cars have it in them to set a 30.8 with that kind of fuel. Thats end of stint 1 or beginning of stint 2 level. For reference, best lap Max managed to put in on the race last year around that level of fuel was a low 35s.

What was the source for this claim?

Don't compare race pace and Q pace with the same fuel, race pace is about tyre management and Q pace about tyre abuse. 30.8 with 70kg of fuel (+2-2.2s) is probably about 5 tenths off what the pole time will be this year

It’s a fair point. In Bahrain specifically you have to take care of the rears and you lose a lot of time feathering the throttle out of slow speed corners. However, for a track like Bahrain with a lot of “stop and go” sections, I would consider your numbers a little bit on the conservative side.

A bigger weight will be punished harder on tracks which have frequent momentum shifts. That’s why a 30.8 on 70kgs sounds a bit unrealistic. It implies (close to) a 1.5 second gain on Bahrain-spec SF24.

[Vanja #66]

It implies (close to) a 1.5 second gain on Bahrain-spec SF24.

It implies about 5-6 tenths gained year-on-year at most, I don't know where that extra second you got comes from

[Emag]

It implies (close to) a 1.5 second gain on Bahrain-spec SF24.

It implies about 5-6 tenths gained year-on-year at most, I don't know where that extra second you got comes from

Because I think in Bahrain, 70 liters of Fuel should add closer to +3 seconds in laptime and not +2.

[Seanspeed]

It implies (close to) a 1.5 second gain on Bahrain-spec SF24.

It implies about 5-6 tenths gained year-on-year at most, I don't know where that extra second you got comes from

Because I think in Bahrain, 70 liters of Fuel should add closer to +3 seconds in laptime and not +2.

Yea, Bahrain is a big 'acceleration' sort of track where fuel loads make a bit more of a difference than normal. While 10kg = 3 tenths is kind of an accepted figure, that's more like a rough average, not a hard rule for all tracks.

A 1:30.8 with 70kg is maybe not totally impossible, but pretty hard to believe. Usual adage of 'if something sounds too good to be true...' and all.

[KimiRai]

Well it could be wrong of course. Just sharing what I heard.

[Fakepivot]

Yooo, are you guys watching that live strem from ferrari about that mila event? there was this promo video they kept saying about winning championship are they really gunning for championship this year?? Leclerc brings it up over and over again.

[Seanspeed]

Yooo, are you guys watching that live strem from ferrari about that mila event? there was this promo video they kept saying about winning championship are they really gunning for championship this year?? Leclerc brings it up over and over again.

Well they weren't that far off last year, so yes, making that next leap to genuine championship contender is very obviously the aim. Ferrari aren't in F1 just to make up the numbers.

Talk is just talk, though. They can 'want' it all they like, but it's extremely hard to actually do. Mclaren seem like they've set a pretty high bar.

[Emag]

Yooo, are you guys watching that live strem from ferrari about that mila event? there was this promo video they kept saying about winning championship are they really gunning for championship this year?? Leclerc brings it up over and over again.

Well they weren't that far off last year, so yes, making that next leap to genuine championship contender is very obviously the aim. Ferrari aren't in F1 just to make up the numbers.

Talk is just talk, though. They can 'want' it all they like, but it's extremely hard to actually do. Mclaren seem like they've set a pretty high bar.

I do think people are reading a bit too much into that day 2 long run by Lando. Until McLaren proves their pace on an actual race, it should be treated as an outlier.

McLaren’s car tended to snap when they tried to push it too hard, so it’s not like it’s all sunflowers and daisies over there too.

Of course we have no idea what fuel loads they had when attempting those push laps, but that is equally valid for every other team.

Until we have 2-3 races to see if the picture has changed, on the basis of how last year ended, I think we can safely assume things will be close again.

[Vanja #66]

Because I think in Bahrain, 70 liters of Fuel should add closer to +3 seconds in laptime and not +2.

Is there data that backs up +50% bigger weight penalty?

[f1Follower]

What kind of rear wing was used by Ferrari in Bahrain testing? Its said that even though the track requires high downforce rear wing Ferrari used medium downforce rear wing. Is it correct observation for the competition?

[Emag]

Because I think in Bahrain, 70 liters of Fuel should add closer to +3 seconds in laptime and not +2.

Is there data that backs up +50% bigger weight penalty?

There is no data that backs up the 0.03s per 10kg of fuel either, because as you pointed out before, we don't really have a reference on drivers pushing 100% on a full tank of fuel. That is a rough estimate that has been around since early 2010s (as far as I can remember), at least 3 generations of cars before the ones we have today.

Even if you think that estimate is still true, it's not going to be the same for every track because it is an average. Assuming a normal distribution of laptime loss per 10kg of fuel on all the tracks, some tracks will be on the left side of the bell curve (meaning < 0.03) and some tracks will be on the right side of the bell curve (meaning > 0.03).

Bahrain is a track where you get severely punished for having bad traction / acceleration. If you have a lot of weight, both of those get quite a big nerf. But really, no need to go into details just to say I don't know. There is no data I can provide that can conclusively give a number on how much laptime loss 10kg of fuel causes in Bahrain because there is none. I just assume it to be on the higher side of the estimates we have, which I think are wrong in general anyway, because I don't think added weight has a linear relationship with laptime loss. At least not with human drivers, because no human can drive a car at 100% of its limit. At 5kg for example, the differences are pretty much negligible for the driver. If he doesn't know the car is "overweight", he will likely not notice anything off with it at all.

The bigger the weight, the worse the car feels to drive and the more difficult it will be for a human who relies on feel to drive it close to that limit, hence why I think the 0.03s per 10kg, even if you assume it to be true, it shouldn't be constant for a human driver.

[SoulPancake13]

McLaren were behind Ferrari at the start of 2024 and finished ahead in both points and race pace, so not sure how they are on par in terms of development…

This is a bit unfair since they had weaker summer development in view of the Miami upgrade which made them the fastest for basically the entire season.

Doesn't change that Mclaren started behind and ended convincingly ahead.

Ferrari are NOT on par with Mclaren in terms of development. No team on the grid currently is. Every single year for the past three years Mclaren have managed to bring game changing improvements to their car. The confidence in their technical department is likely at a high they've not had for decades. Ferrari has improved a lot, but is not yet on that same kind of level.

Which is also why Ferrari cannot afford to spend a third of the season figuring the car out. If the car doesn't show immediate and strong race winning potential early on, Mclaren will essentially have it in the bag. Maybe things would be different most seasons, but with 2026 looming, getting a strong start for this year is important for the title fight.

Ferrari had to change their entire concept for 2024 meanwhile McLaren figured it out in Austria in 2023. Of course they were ahead of us in development. Ferrari competing for race wins after the Monza upgrade given how much they were actually behind McLaren is nothing less than remarkable. I don't get why you seem to be so negative about the team.

Of course, we will wait and see until next week(for an unrepresentative track ironically) and go from there. I think the reaction from Wache(we were hiding the most during testing) is realistic given it is in line with what I have personally observed.

[Seanspeed]

This is a bit unfair since they had weaker summer development in view of the Miami upgrade which made them the fastest for basically the entire season.

Doesn't change that Mclaren started behind and ended convincingly ahead.

Ferrari are NOT on par with Mclaren in terms of development. No team on the grid currently is. Every single year for the past three years Mclaren have managed to bring game changing improvements to their car. The confidence in their technical department is likely at a high they've not had for decades. Ferrari has improved a lot, but is not yet on that same kind of level.

Which is also why Ferrari cannot afford to spend a third of the season figuring the car out. If the car doesn't show immediate and strong race winning potential early on, Mclaren will essentially have it in the bag. Maybe things would be different most seasons, but with 2026 looming, getting a strong start for this year is important for the title fight.

Ferrari had to change their entire concept for 2024 meanwhile McLaren figured it out in Austria in 2023. Of course they were ahead of us in development. Ferrari competing for race wins after the Monza upgrade given how much they were actually behind McLaren is nothing less than remarkable. I don't get why you seem to be so negative about the team.

Of course, we will wait and see until next week(for an unrepresentative track ironically) and go from there. I think the reaction from Wache(we were hiding the most during testing) is realistic given it is in line with what I have personally observed.

Ferrari made a massive concept change mid-2023 as well. 2024 was only a continuation of that.

I think one area where Ferrari were on the backfoot is simply having the huge problem of giving up on the innovative and very strong 2022 design direction. Mclaren were a bit more fluid in this regard because they hadn't so strongly committed to any different direction, and obviously not any design direction that got demolished by an FIA directive.

That said, the best design and engineering teams in F1 adapt, and that's an area that Mclaren have simply done better. It took them a little longer to overtake us, but they have done so confidently without any slipups.

I dont think it's likely Ferrari have secretly been hiding world beating pace, but it's obviously not technically impossible. If you want to hold onto that hope, cool.

[Farnborough]

Quite some welcome currently in Italy,



What an atmosphere too