2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[SB15]

Yesterday Rosario Giuliana said he's quite pessimistic about Ferrari solving their problems shortly. He's generally a Ferrari PR, so if he said that, I think situation is quite bad. Anyway he confirmed upgrades could come for Bahrain, but they are not aimed at solving the problem, they were planned before.

I don’t blame his pessimism, I’m really suggesting Ferrari should use the next 2 races as test sessions to gather as much data as they possibly can to see where and why the rear suspension has problems.

And the fix isn’t going to be quick because why would anyone think it is, I mean have you seen how long it takes Mercedes just to find some idea of a “fix”?

Really holding off on the upgrades would be wise, especially if it’s aero related. Most of performance gains now seems to be mechanical.

[deadhead]

I’m getting the sense that this formula has been very much reliant on suspensions from the very beginning and it caught a lot of teams off guard, and apparently it still is…

[DGP123]

Should have thrown everything at getting Aldo Costa, once he left, Mercedes.

[SB15]

I’m getting the sense that this formula has been very much reliant on suspensions from the very beginning and it caught a lot of teams off guard, and apparently it still is…

Adrian Newey, Andrea Stella, and very soon James Allison (Which I do believe most of Mercedes upgrades this season will be purely mechanical)

All were wise to focus on the #1 crucial aspect, and particularly the #1 contributor to performance gain these new regulations. McLaren last season proved that, with very minimal aero updates but focused and implemented huge changes (upgrades) to the overall mechanical platform.

[Farnborough]

I’m getting the sense that this formula has been very much reliant on suspensions from the very beginning and it caught a lot of teams off guard, and apparently it still is…

It's not just the general combination in aero and suspension, there was big shift in going to 18" rims too.

Suspension "allowance" if you could call it that, with reduction in some elements (inerta for heave control as one) but reliance upon the tyre carcass as taking some of the dimensional compromise in geometry was significantly reduced from wheel size shift.

All of which had to be "absorbed" by competence in suspension concept and application.

As we saw, some understanding it from the start, many though, no they didn't. Or did not feel/apply the importance to it which would give advantage.

Every change in rules will shift that latent focus, but then fluidity and open attitude to thinking is one of the foundations of F1 racing.

Edit, to add:- they all Knew that effect was coming with the rim size change, it was commonly evaluated and given in projection as to expected importance, I think discussion used phrases like "ultimately the same or more grip" but "in a narrowed band of performance" which we can see clearly now.
Effectively, the less suspension (ability to absorb error, both cushioning and suspension geometrical "characteristics " ) is available in the tyre, then the more control, understanding, accuracy et al has to be provided by the vehicle control of how it's mass is suspended in the dynamic sphere of performance.

[Formula 1 fan 1996]

Will it be difficult to expect Ferrari to win a race soon, or is there a chance of victory given the characteristics of the next few races?

[Seanspeed]

Will it be difficult to expect Ferrari to win a race soon, or is there a chance of victory given the characteristics of the next few races?

The car is still a huge question mark. It seems to be super sensitive, and even when optimal, I think it's fairly clear the Mclaren is still ultimately faster. But who knows how close we could be if the car could more consistently be running optimally. China was weird for many reasons and of course Australia was mixed conditions at an unrepresentative track.

Ferrari need to be worrying less about winning races at this point and more about learning how to actually build a better car. Cuz they still clearly dont have it figured out. There was a hope that the Barcelona update last year was a one-off, but as we're seeing now, it wasn't.

That said, nobody outside of Mclaren and Newey-era Red Bull have cracked these regulations anyways. Clearly quite a challenge to manage all the dynamics in play.

[dialtone]

Ferrari need to be worrying less about winning races at this point and more about learning how to actually build a better car. Cuz they still clearly dont have it figured out. There was a hope that the Barcelona update last year was a one-off, but as we're seeing now, it wasn't.

Completely different issues between Barcelona and today. The wording you use and the attitude is not justified, the car is good overall, has one problem that has nothing to do with having a bad floor or bad correlation.

[ringo]

What I am confident about is the car is not unpredictable to drive. Showing the fundamentals are understood. It's no w13 or w14 by any means.
So things are not as dire as some of you make it out to be. The fix wont take long like mercedes. Mercedes did not understand why their car did not work and they threw spaghetti on the wall until it sticks and that took 3 years.
Ferrari are not in that situation. SF24 was a good car. And this one is building from tht knolwedge.
The car looked really good in the sprint. I am optimistic that it can look that good again more consistently. The team just need to be a tad less sloppy.

[Seanspeed]

Ferrari need to be worrying less about winning races at this point and more about learning how to actually build a better car. Cuz they still clearly dont have it figured out. There was a hope that the Barcelona update last year was a one-off, but as we're seeing now, it wasn't.

Completely different issues between Barcelona and today. The wording you use and the attitude is not justified, the car is good overall, has one problem that has nothing to do with having a bad floor or bad correlation.

The issue is fundamentally that they are still struggling to make the car notably faster in a controlled and consistent way. That is absolutely the case for the Barcelona upgrade and the new car. It's that same fundamental problem. Not saying it's an easy problem or that Ferrari are unique in dealing with it, but it's still their point of deficiency as of now, the main reason they are not competitive enough to fight for a championship. Little else matters until they figure this out as Mclaren or Newey have. That's the bar Ferrari needs to meet if they want to be true top contenders.

[VarioR]

Ferrari need to be worrying less about winning races at this point and more about learning how to actually build a better car. Cuz they still clearly dont have it figured out. There was a hope that the Barcelona update last year was a one-off, but as we're seeing now, it wasn't.

Completely different issues between Barcelona and today. The wording you use and the attitude is not justified, the car is good overall, has one problem that has nothing to do with having a bad floor or bad correlation.

The issue is fundamentally that they are still struggling to make the car notably faster in a controlled and consistent way. That is absolutely the case for the Barcelona upgrade and the new car. It's that same fundamental problem. Not saying it's an easy problem or that Ferrari are unique in dealing with it, but it's still their point of deficiency as of now, the main reason they are not competitive enough to fight for a championship. Little else matters until they figure this out as Mclaren or Newey have. That's the bar Ferrari needs to meet if they want to be true top contenders.

McLaren had a similar issue at the start of the last season and don't forguet the have the same front suspension.

[ScuderiaLeo]

I appreciate the optimism in this thread, but budgeting is a much bigger consideration this year than past ones and IMO is being overlooked. We can't use examples from 2024 as justification for why Ferrari may or may not fix their issue in a timely manner because they can't throw nearly as much money into the SF-25 as they did to the SF-24.

They need to fix the problem in one package, maybe two at most. If they introduce a new spec that either doesn't fix the issue or somehow makes it worse, I don't see them trying much further. And they'd need to do this within the next 2-3 months else the season is lost anyways.

It's not a good position to be in. The time + money constraints have me a little pessimistic.

McLaren had a similar issue at the start of the last season and don't forguet the have the same front suspension.

The front suspension has nothing to do with any of this.

[SB15]

What I am confident about is the car is not unpredictable to drive. Showing the fundamentals are understood. It's no w13 or w14 by any means.
So things are not as dire as some of you make it out to be. The fix wont take long like mercedes. Mercedes did not understand why their car did not work and they threw spaghetti on the wall until it sticks and that took 3 years.
Ferrari are not in that situation. SF24 was a good car. And this one is building from tht knolwedge.
The car looked really good in the sprint. I am optimistic that it can look that good again more consistently. The team just need to be a tad less sloppy.

Well you can’t base that just because last year was good doesn’t necessarily mean, that the car will be much better this year. I mean look at Redbull, that RB21 is as unpredictable to drive that Max has to make micro corrections in every corner just to get for it to be competitive which is a night and day difference compared to the RB19.

Plus the Ferrari maximum performance is when it run extremely low to the ground, but any other top team can run as super close to ground as Ferrari, but if their’s a risk of massive plank wear and risks of floor damage during kerb riding or bottoming out via porpoising….it’s not worth the risk especially in a budget cap era.

[ringo]

What I am confident about is the car is not unpredictable to drive. Showing the fundamentals are understood. It's no w13 or w14 by any means.
So things are not as dire as some of you make it out to be. The fix wont take long like mercedes. Mercedes did not understand why their car did not work and they threw spaghetti on the wall until it sticks and that took 3 years.
Ferrari are not in that situation. SF24 was a good car. And this one is building from tht knolwedge.
The car looked really good in the sprint. I am optimistic that it can look that good again more consistently. The team just need to be a tad less sloppy.

Well you can’t base that just because last year was good doesn’t necessarily mean, that the car will be much better this year. I mean look at Redbull, that RB21 is as unpredictable to drive that Max has to make micro corrections in every corner just to get for it to be competitive which is a night and day difference compared to the RB19.

Plus the Ferrari maximum performance is when it run extremely low to the ground, but any other top team can run as super close to ground as Ferrari, but if their’s a risk of massive plank wear and risks of floor damage during kerb riding or bottoming out via porpoising….it’s not worth the risk especially in a budget cap era.

Well for the low running, it could be one little mechanical oversight that prevents them from doing so controlably. I do not see the evidence that they are running lower than everyone else to get performance. They are probably running just as low, but have excursions with ride height that the others do not have because theirs is better control of the aero platform.
This can be down to something as simple as deflections in control arms or pull rod, tyre movement due to camber, or free play in a rose joint, or heave element.
0.5 mm is very small distance to fail a wear test!
The car failed in 4 measurements around the reference point, showing that the wear was not lopsided. Looks like it was wearing down the straight or coming out of the corners.
Maybe Ferarri needs a flexi rear wing to offload the car on the straight, who knows?

[Farnborough]

What I am confident about is the car is not unpredictable to drive. Showing the fundamentals are understood. It's no w13 or w14 by any means.
So things are not as dire as some of you make it out to be. The fix wont take long like mercedes. Mercedes did not understand why their car did not work and they threw spaghetti on the wall until it sticks and that took 3 years.
Ferrari are not in that situation. SF24 was a good car. And this one is building from tht knolwedge.
The car looked really good in the sprint. I am optimistic that it can look that good again more consistently. The team just need to be a tad less sloppy.

Well you can’t base that just because last year was good doesn’t necessarily mean, that the car will be much better this year. I mean look at Redbull, that RB21 is as unpredictable to drive that Max has to make micro corrections in every corner just to get for it to be competitive which is a night and day difference compared to the RB19.

Plus the Ferrari maximum performance is when it run extremely low to the ground, but any other top team can run as super close to ground as Ferrari, but if their’s a risk of massive plank wear and risks of floor damage during kerb riding or bottoming out via porpoising….it’s not worth the risk especially in a budget cap era.

Well for the low running, it could be one little mechanical oversight that prevents them from doing so controlably. I do not see the evidence that they are running lower than everyone else to get performance. They are probably running just as low, but have excursions with ride height that the others do not have because theirs is better control of the aero platform.
This can be down to something as simple as deflections in control arms or pull rod, tyre movement due to camber, or free play in a rose joint, or heave element.
0.5 mm is very small distance to fail a wear test!
The car failed in 4 measurements around the reference point, showing that the wear was not lopsided. Looks like it was wearing down the straight or coming out of the corners.
Maybe Ferarri needs a flexi rear wing to offload the car on the straight, who knows?

Thats not illustration of the error, simply the manifestation of material resistance to the wear it's subjected. It cannot be placed, at that dimension, within the suspension's architecture to demonstrate what should be "fixed" it's just accumulative wear from how many times its hit the ground/track.