2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[ringo]

McLaren was clearly faster, this race was won yesterday with that magic lap and today with Max's class in keeping Norris at bay while managing the pace; plus papayas sabotaged themselves as usual in strategy and poor race management. Good for us.

Oh ok. So the car was the equal fastest today.
The car works well on hard compounds.
The soft and medium seem trickier.
The heavy fuel running did not seem to be affected as Max has suggested from the qualifying, adding mystery to where the car really is.
Well managed win nonetheless. Whatever defficiencies didnt show up today because of the lack of overtaking but also the bunched up running killing any chance of Mclaren using 2 cars to pincer Max.

[ispano6]

Yuki went for a wet race set up which backfired on him. No rain during the race as predicted by the Japanese weather forecast. No straightline speed or graining either due to the new tarmac. He said he considered going with less wing like Max but chose consistency due to the limited FP running. At least Max won and Yuki didn't crash out. A bit cruel result for Yuki considering he would have been up there with Hadjar but he's now in the top team and has a higher ceiling. Chin up but head down for the next one.

[Cs98]

Now Bahrain: rear limited, high rear tyre wear...doesn't seem the perfect combination for RB21, and McLaren will be able to exploit their superior tyre management, plus Ferrari should bring a new floor. I think we will struggle.

Ever the optimist. Rear limitation is much more preferable to front.

[Vettel165]

Lando confirmed my post. Did Red Bull found something in the low-speed, as this was our main weakness last year.

" High-speed we were very, very strong and I think definitely the strongest car out there. Slow speed—we’re quite a chunk off the Red Bull, and that's where we lost yesterday in qualifying"

[Sergej]

Now Bahrain: rear limited, high rear tyre wear...doesn't seem the perfect combination for RB21, and McLaren will be able to exploit their superior tyre management, plus Ferrari should bring a new floor. I think we will struggle.

Ever the optimist. Rear limitation is much more preferable to front.

yeah always safer to keep expectations at bay anyway, why do you think rear limitation is much more preferable to front ? it's a general thing or are you saying that with respect to RB21 ?

[CjC]

Lando confirmed my post. Did Red Bull found something in the low-speed, as this was our main weakness last year.

" High-speed we were very, very strong and I think definitely the strongest car out there. Slow speed—we’re quite a chunk off the Red Bull, and that's where we lost yesterday in qualifying"

I’m not disputing your post, just having a rant

This is the same Lando who said on Friday that the McLaren is the strongest car but after being beaten by Verstappen it’s now quite a chunk off off the Red Bull in slow speed
As a Mclaren fan so by default a Lando fan, he’s so inconsistent with his quotes and it’s starting to get on my nerves.
After he talked up the Mclaren drivers as the best pairing on the grid, the McLaren should have been on pole by 0.25 of a second and then should have comfortably won the race with a clean start. That didn’t happen because Max had a worldie of a weekend and out performed the entire field BUT according to Lando, the McLaren is a good chunk off the Red Bull in the slow speed…

[venkyhere]

Lando confirmed my post. Did Red Bull found something in the low-speed, as this was our main weakness last year.

" High-speed we were very, very strong and I think definitely the strongest car out there. Slow speed—we’re quite a chunk off the Red Bull, and that's where we lost yesterday in qualifying"

If by 'slow speed' Norris is referring to turn11 hairpin and the final chicane, I think he is blaming the car instead of his own driving style. Piastri didn't have problems with both these places. Norris wasn't attacking the chicane like Piastri and Verstappen were, and unlike both of them who were taking an 'wider, outer' line with higher min-speed through the hairpin, Norris was always taking the tighter, slower, shorter line (which I reckon delayed his throttle application at exit) - this is my 'read' from the helicam video shots.

[ringo]

Lando confirmed my post. Did Red Bull found something in the low-speed, as this was our main weakness last year.

" High-speed we were very, very strong and I think definitely the strongest car out there. Slow speed—we’re quite a chunk off the Red Bull, and that's where we lost yesterday in qualifying"

In the low speed chicane exit Max could stab the throttle more out of the corners in Q3. That was evident.
Norris is correct here. May well be down to the different PUs and not necessarily the chassis.

Watch the videos again or telemetry on the steepness of the throttle application exiting the chicane.

[Cs98]

Now Bahrain: rear limited, high rear tyre wear...doesn't seem the perfect combination for RB21, and McLaren will be able to exploit their superior tyre management, plus Ferrari should bring a new floor. I think we will struggle.

Ever the optimist. Rear limitation is much more preferable to front.

yeah always safer to keep expectations at bay anyway, why do you think rear limitation is much more preferable to front ? it's a general thing or are you saying that with respect to RB21 ?

Because front deg is mostly a function of how the car works the tyres, suddenly the grip starts going and the understeer gets worse and worse. No amount of skill in the world can make an understeery car go fast around a corner, the only way to mitigate it is to go slow (see Max's first stint in China). With rear deg it's a function of how the car AND the driver work the tyres. If the driver controls sliding and traction well it helps a lot, and Max is very good at that. It's advantage McLaren because their car is faster and kinder on the tyres, but it's a track where a driver can make a difference.

[Cs98]

Lando confirmed my post. Did Red Bull found something in the low-speed, as this was our main weakness last year.

" High-speed we were very, very strong and I think definitely the strongest car out there. Slow speed—we’re quite a chunk off the Red Bull, and that's where we lost yesterday in qualifying"

In the low speed chicane exit Max could stab the throttle more out of the corners in Q3. That was evident.
Norris is correct here. May well be down to the different PUs and not necessarily the chassis.

Watch the videos again or telemetry on the steepness of the throttle application exiting the chicane.

The last chicane is all about the kerbs. RB used to be terrible on the kerbs so it's surprising to see them do well in that sequence. Still, Oscar was purple in S3, so it was mostly due to Lando bottling it.

[Vettel165]

Ever the optimist. Rear limitation is much more preferable to front.

yeah always safer to keep expectations at bay anyway, why do you think rear limitation is much more preferable to front ? it's a general thing or are you saying that with respect to RB21 ?

Because front deg is mostly a function of how the car works the tyres, suddenly the grip starts going and the understeer gets worse and worse. No amount of skill in the world can make an understeery car go fast around a corner, the only way to mitigate it is to go slow (see Max's first stint in China). With rear deg it's a function of how the car AND the driver work the tyres. If the driver controls sliding and traction well it helps a lot, and Max is very good at that. It's advantage McLaren because their car is faster and kinder on the tyres, but it's a track where a driver can make a difference.

Great analysis. This forum is really fantastic.

[CjC]

Did anybody notice who Yukis race engineer was/is?
According to Verstappen Hugh Bird was his performance engineer this weekend.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/max-v ... /10710577/

[Sergej]

Ever the optimist. Rear limitation is much more preferable to front.

yeah always safer to keep expectations at bay anyway, why do you think rear limitation is much more preferable to front ? it's a general thing or are you saying that with respect to RB21 ?

Because front deg is mostly a function of how the car works the tyres, suddenly the grip starts going and the understeer gets worse and worse. No amount of skill in the world can make an understeery car go fast around a corner, the only way to mitigate it is to go slow (see Max's first stint in China). With rear deg it's a function of how the car AND the driver work the tyres. If the driver controls sliding and traction well it helps a lot, and Max is very good at that. It's advantage McLaren because their car is faster and kinder on the tyres, but it's a track where a driver can make a difference.

Appreciate your analysis, even though I'm not sure I agree that a driver can make much more difference in a rear limited track where anyway you have to rely on a good traction/rear from you car (and McLaren is best here), while for example just this weekend we had a very good demonstration of how much a difference a driver can make on a front limited circuit like Suzuka. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong

[Paa]

What scares me is how much difference a good setup makes with the car and how Red Bull have clearly no tools to get the base setup right.
It seems that every weekend is a hit or miss gamble, starting with a s**t setup and slowly going toward the right one. But his usually means that they go blindly into Qualy with something that might work and with no direct data about tyre deltas and wear and stuff.

Car might have some potential, but they need to figure out the toolset to make it work from the get go.
And also working on the pitstops. Having a backup is no excuse in my book. The backup should be just as good as the first team. (or maybe 0.1-0.2s worse, but not a whole second)

[Cs98]

yeah always safer to keep expectations at bay anyway, why do you think rear limitation is much more preferable to front ? it's a general thing or are you saying that with respect to RB21 ?

Because front deg is mostly a function of how the car works the tyres, suddenly the grip starts going and the understeer gets worse and worse. No amount of skill in the world can make an understeery car go fast around a corner, the only way to mitigate it is to go slow (see Max's first stint in China). With rear deg it's a function of how the car AND the driver work the tyres. If the driver controls sliding and traction well it helps a lot, and Max is very good at that. It's advantage McLaren because their car is faster and kinder on the tyres, but it's a track where a driver can make a difference.

Appreciate your analysis, even though I'm not sure I agree that a driver can make much more difference in a rear limited track where anyway you have to rely on a good traction/rear from you car (and McLaren is best here), while for example just this weekend we had a very good demonstration of how much a difference a driver can make on a front limited circuit like Suzuka. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong

I wouldn't call Suzuka front limited. It's nothing like China.