2025 McLaren F1 Team

[CjC]

Interested to see how it goes in Jeddah. I’ll be amazed if Mclaren win by 15+ seconds

Basically only medium and high speed corners. McLaren absolutely dominated the high speed sections of Bahrain.

The only team that could realistically threaten them is Ferrari, but only if the track surface is still so amazingly smooth that they can get away with running the floor lower than usual.

My unpopular opinion is that Jeddah is an absolutely amazing track. It's super exciting and unique and the racing has generally been really good.

It’s also going to be warmer in Jeddah compared to Bahrain

[mwillems]

George had no new tyres left. I'm not sure what life he had on the used softs and mediums but it will have been a part of the decision.

[mwillems]

Interested to see how it goes in Jeddah. I’ll be amazed if Mclaren win by 15+ seconds

Basically only medium and high speed corners. McLaren absolutely dominated the high speed sections of Bahrain.

The only team that could realistically threaten them is Ferrari, but only if the track surface is still so amazingly smooth that they can get away with running the floor lower than usual.

My unpopular opinion is that Jeddah is an absolutely amazing track. It's super exciting and unique and the racing has generally been really good.

It’s also going to be warmer in Jeddah compared to Bahrain

We might actually dominate a race. About time, the words been used enough

[Emag]

Interested to see how it goes in Jeddah. I’ll be amazed if Mclaren win by 15+ seconds

Basically only medium and high speed corners. McLaren absolutely dominated the high speed sections of Bahrain.

The only team that could realistically threaten them is Ferrari, but only if the track surface is still so amazingly smooth that they can get away with running the floor lower than usual.

My unpopular opinion is that Jeddah is an absolutely amazing track. It's super exciting and unique and the racing has generally been really good.

It’s also going to be warmer in Jeddah compared to Bahrain

If it's warmer it only plays more into McLaren hands. The MCL39 is almost unbelievable in how much performance they have on others on hot temps.

[SoulPancake13]

Jeddah is still a night race and last year we saw basically 0 deg, I think it will be a tight one with McLaren still having a 1-2 tenth advantage over the others

[CjC]

Yea if there is no deg or any new upgrades it’ll be very tight especially as Mclaren are at their most vulnerable in quali and then dirt air is having a massive effect on the races.

[bananapeel23]

How can Leclerc undercut Russell when they pit 7 laps later than him for the first stint? Just remove the safety car variable when you're making these assumptions. If Leclerc tried to undercut Russell on stint 2, he would need to do at least 7 more laps than Russell in the final stint. He would be a sitting duck at the end.

Why would he need to do 7 laps more? He was sitting 1 second behind on fresher mediums. After a few more laps he could have pitted onto softs and made it to the end much more comfortably than Russell did.

Sorry, because i was thinking of Norris. Leclerc pit only 4 laps after Russell, not 7. Anyway, If you pit later than your rival for the first stint, and then pit earlier than him on the second stint, you're just going to kill your tire delta advantage. The fact that the hard was so bad in this race really hurts Leclerc's options as well.

Let me give you a concrete example, with an hypothetical Bahrain where there is no safety car.

First Stint
RUS pits first on lap 13, goes S -> M
LEC pits second on lap 17, goes M -> M
==== Leclerc only does 4 more laps that Russell on a harder tire, doesn't bode well for his later stints

Second Stint
*LEC pits first on lap ~35 (unlikely Russell pits later than this, his tires would already be 22 laps old by this point) to undercut Russell, goes M -> H (cannot go soft, because he would have to do too many laps on a used soft tyre at this point)
*RUS pits second on lap 36, goes M -> M (has this option since he started with the softs)
==== Assume Leclerc manages the undercut and comes out in front

That leaves us with the Third Final Stint
Russel likely really close behind Leclerc, 20 laps to go
Leclerc has track position, but no tire delta for the final stint and on a horrible hard tire.

I don't think there is any chance Leclerc holds a Russell on the mediums for 20 laps on horrible hards. And I didn't even include Lando in this scenario, which might have even undercut them both.

The idea of the undercut is that Leclerc also goes onto softs, not hards. Then it's a straight fight with both drivers on the same rubber.

Both Vasseur and Leclerc have said that the soft was the planned tyre for the 3rd stint, but that they felt like the safety car came too early for them to make it work.

[Emag]

Why would he need to do 7 laps more? He was sitting 1 second behind on fresher mediums. After a few more laps he could have pitted onto softs and made it to the end much more comfortably than Russell did.

Sorry, because i was thinking of Norris. Leclerc pit only 4 laps after Russell, not 7. Anyway, If you pit later than your rival for the first stint, and then pit earlier than him on the second stint, you're just going to kill your tire delta advantage. The fact that the hard was so bad in this race really hurts Leclerc's options as well.

Let me give you a concrete example, with an hypothetical Bahrain where there is no safety car.

First Stint
RUS pits first on lap 13, goes S -> M
LEC pits second on lap 17, goes M -> M
==== Leclerc only does 4 more laps that Russell on a harder tire, doesn't bode well for his later stints

Second Stint
*LEC pits first on lap ~35 (unlikely Russell pits later than this, his tires would already be 22 laps old by this point) to undercut Russell, goes M -> H (cannot go soft, because he would have to do too many laps on a used soft tyre at this point)
*RUS pits second on lap 36, goes M -> M (has this option since he started with the softs)
==== Assume Leclerc manages the undercut and comes out in front

That leaves us with the Third Final Stint
Russel likely really close behind Leclerc, 20 laps to go
Leclerc has track position, but no tire delta for the final stint and on a horrible hard tire.

I don't think there is any chance Leclerc holds a Russell on the mediums for 20 laps on horrible hards. And I didn't even include Lando in this scenario, which might have even undercut them both.

The idea of the undercut is that Leclerc also goes onto softs, not hards. Then it's a straight fight with both drivers on the same rubber.

Both Vasseur and Leclerc have said that the soft was the planned tyre for the 3rd stint, but that they felt like the safety car came too early for them to make it work.

Why would they go soft though? With 20+ laps to go? It's still going to be a P3 with Lando on the mediums even if Leclerc gets Russell since you want to go that way. There is no chance they're keeping up with him on the softs for the last stint. The only reason why it looked like it worked for Russell is because hards were horrible on Leclerc and Lando was tripping and lost a heap of time overtaking Lewis and Charles to get to Russell.

The softs didn't have the pace to keep up with mediums for 20+ laps. Did you see the gap Russell had to Oscar in the end?

I think you're viewing things from a tinted perspective. If Ferrari's plan was to go softs for the final stint, they wouldn't have pit on lap 36. They would have tried to make the last stint 15 laps at most, hence removing the undercut factor against Russell.

[bananapeel23]

The idea of the undercut is that Leclerc also goes onto softs, not hards. Then it's a straight fight with both drivers on the same rubber.

Both Vasseur and Leclerc have said that the soft was the planned tyre for the 3rd stint, but that they felt like the safety car came too early for them to make it work.

Why would they go soft though? With 20+ laps to go? It's still going to be a P3 with Lando on the mediums even if Leclerc gets Russell if you want to go that way, because there is no chance they're keeping up with him. The only reason why it looked like it worked for Russell is because hards were horrible on Leclerc and Lando was tripping and lost a heap of time overtaking Lewis and Charles to get to Russell.

The softs didn't have the pace to keep up with mediums for 20+ laps. Did you see the gap Russell had to Oscar in the end?

I think you're viewing things from a tinted perspective.

I don't think I am.

Yes, the mediums were better, but the hards were definitely worse than both and suffered worse deg.

Remember that the safety car brought Norris closer to Leclerc and Russell, while forcing both to pit earlier than they would have done otherwise. If the third stint is any shorter, it becomes a really solid race tyre.

Norris was the primary beneficiary from the safety car. He ended up in a better position than he would have have otherwise, so I don't quite understand how you can believe that a shorter soft stint where Norris had a bigger gap to close would somehow put Russell and Leclerc in a worse position?

Norris also won't be overtaking Leclerc or Russell any faster if both are on softs and are able to defend better. At no point during the last stint was the hard ever better than the soft, so it takes even longer for Norris to clear Russell or Leclerc.

[Emag]

The idea of the undercut is that Leclerc also goes onto softs, not hards. Then it's a straight fight with both drivers on the same rubber.

Both Vasseur and Leclerc have said that the soft was the planned tyre for the 3rd stint, but that they felt like the safety car came too early for them to make it work.

Why would they go soft though? With 20+ laps to go? It's still going to be a P3 with Lando on the mediums even if Leclerc gets Russell if you want to go that way, because there is no chance they're keeping up with him. The only reason why it looked like it worked for Russell is because hards were horrible on Leclerc and Lando was tripping and lost a heap of time overtaking Lewis and Charles to get to Russell.

The softs didn't have the pace to keep up with mediums for 20+ laps. Did you see the gap Russell had to Oscar in the end?

I think you're viewing things from a tinted perspective.

I don't think I am.

Yes, the mediums were better, but the hards were definitely worse than both and suffered worse deg.

Remember that the safety car brought Norris closer to Leclerc and Russell, while forcing both to pit earlier than they would have done otherwise. If the third stint is any shorter, it becomes a really solid race tyre.

Norris was the primary beneficiary from the safety car. He ended up in a better position than he would have have otherwise, so I don't quite understand how you can believe that a shorter soft stint where Norris had a bigger gap to close would somehow put Russell and Leclerc in a worse position?

Norris also won't be overtaking Leclerc or Russell any faster if both are on softs and are able to defend better. At no point during the last stint was the hard ever better than the soft, so it takes even longer for Norris to clear Russell or Leclerc.

Ironically, the safety car actually hurt Lando because he lost track position to Lewis and made a mess out of overtaking them both after. The safety car did not bring him closer to Russell and Leclerc. He was hovering in the 1.8-2s range, which is well within undercut range. Lando would have been the first to pit for the second stint anyway, because he pit so early on the first stint. He would have undercut Leclerc at least, but possibly even Russell, depending if they would react to him pitting or not, which I think they would. Also McLaren had no intention of using the Hards on any of their drivers after watching it perform that poorly earlier in the race, so I am not sure if I am understanding you wrong, however Lando would definitely go Mediums for the final stint. It would be Medium v Soft.

Then Ferrari would be forced to go longer with Leclerc on the mediums on the second stint and Leclerc would have to get the job done on-track with the softs for the last stint, which as I said, were not better than the mediums over a long stint. He would have to make up a gap + 2 overtakes to get the P2 you think they would have had in-hand with pace alone.

I definitely think you're looking at it with a tinted perspective. I didn't see the pace you think Leclerc had, especially on the second stint where he was pushing hard but couldn't get within DRS of Russell with newer tires.

[bananapeel23]

Why would they go soft though? With 20+ laps to go? It's still going to be a P3 with Lando on the mediums even if Leclerc gets Russell if you want to go that way, because there is no chance they're keeping up with him. The only reason why it looked like it worked for Russell is because hards were horrible on Leclerc and Lando was tripping and lost a heap of time overtaking Lewis and Charles to get to Russell.

The softs didn't have the pace to keep up with mediums for 20+ laps. Did you see the gap Russell had to Oscar in the end?

I think you're viewing things from a tinted perspective.

I don't think I am.

Yes, the mediums were better, but the hards were definitely worse than both and suffered worse deg.

Remember that the safety car brought Norris closer to Leclerc and Russell, while forcing both to pit earlier than they would have done otherwise. If the third stint is any shorter, it becomes a really solid race tyre.

Norris was the primary beneficiary from the safety car. He ended up in a better position than he would have have otherwise, so I don't quite understand how you can believe that a shorter soft stint where Norris had a bigger gap to close would somehow put Russell and Leclerc in a worse position?

Norris also won't be overtaking Leclerc or Russell any faster if both are on softs and are able to defend better. At no point during the last stint was the hard ever better than the soft, so it takes even longer for Norris to clear Russell or Leclerc.

I definitely think you're looking at it with a tinted perspective. I didn't see the pace you think Leclerc had, especially on the second stint where he was pushing hard but couldn't get within DRS of Russell with newer tires.

Again, Leclerc said he was saving tyres behind Russell. His tyres had definitely lost some of their advantage, but he still had more pace in hand.

Either Norris undercuts both and Leclerc stretches the stint out longer and passes Norris again on fresher softs, maybe undercutting Russell in the process, or Norris stays out long enough that Leclerc manages to undercut Russell.

With Norris sitting like 2 seconds behind you can't even rule out that Leclerc manages to prevent an undercut with a strong in lap, given he still had pace in the mediums.

Either way Leclerc almost certainly finishes ahead of Norris and possibly ahead of Russell.

[SB15]

I don't think I am.

Yes, the mediums were better, but the hards were definitely worse than both and suffered worse deg.

Remember that the safety car brought Norris closer to Leclerc and Russell, while forcing both to pit earlier than they would have done otherwise. If the third stint is any shorter, it becomes a really solid race tyre.

Norris was the primary beneficiary from the safety car. He ended up in a better position than he would have have otherwise, so I don't quite understand how you can believe that a shorter soft stint where Norris had a bigger gap to close would somehow put Russell and Leclerc in a worse position?

Norris also won't be overtaking Leclerc or Russell any faster if both are on softs and are able to defend better. At no point during the last stint was the hard ever better than the soft, so it takes even longer for Norris to clear Russell or Leclerc.

I definitely think you're looking at it with a tinted perspective. I didn't see the pace you think Leclerc had, especially on the second stint where he was pushing hard but couldn't get within DRS of Russell with newer tires.

Again, Leclerc said he was saving tyres behind Russell. His tyres had definitely lost some of their advantage, but he still had more pace in hand.

Either Norris undercuts both and Leclerc stretches the stint out longer and passes Norris again on fresher softs, maybe undercutting Russell in the process, or Norris stays out long enough that Leclerc manages to undercut Russell.

With Norris sitting like 2 seconds behind you can't even rule out that Leclerc manages to prevent an undercut with a strong in lap, given he still had pace in the mediums.

Either way Leclerc almost certainly finishes ahead of Norris and possibly ahead of Russell.

Leclerc wasn’t going to finish ahead of Lando or Russell. That hard tyre was just god awful.

[Darth-Piekus]

There was no way Leclerc could have finished in front of Norris and Russell under any scenario. The Ferrari is still not in the level of Mclaren and Mercedes.

[Emag]

I don't think I am.

Yes, the mediums were better, but the hards were definitely worse than both and suffered worse deg.

Remember that the safety car brought Norris closer to Leclerc and Russell, while forcing both to pit earlier than they would have done otherwise. If the third stint is any shorter, it becomes a really solid race tyre.

Norris was the primary beneficiary from the safety car. He ended up in a better position than he would have have otherwise, so I don't quite understand how you can believe that a shorter soft stint where Norris had a bigger gap to close would somehow put Russell and Leclerc in a worse position?

Norris also won't be overtaking Leclerc or Russell any faster if both are on softs and are able to defend better. At no point during the last stint was the hard ever better than the soft, so it takes even longer for Norris to clear Russell or Leclerc.

I definitely think you're looking at it with a tinted perspective. I didn't see the pace you think Leclerc had, especially on the second stint where he was pushing hard but couldn't get within DRS of Russell with newer tires.

Again, Leclerc said he was saving tyres behind Russell. His tyres had definitely lost some of their advantage, but he still had more pace in hand.

Either Norris undercuts both and Leclerc stretches the stint out longer and passes Norris again on fresher softs, maybe undercutting Russell in the process, or Norris stays out long enough that Leclerc manages to undercut Russell.

With Norris sitting like 2 seconds behind you can't even rule out that Leclerc manages to prevent an undercut with a strong in lap, given he still had pace in the mediums.

Either way Leclerc almost certainly finishes ahead of Norris and possibly ahead of Russell.

Not sure if he said this explicitly or not, but if you check telemetry, it was Russell who was saving on the higher speed corners, not Leclerc. Also, Norris wouldn't stay out that long, they would definitely try the undercut because it was their best choice after such an early first stop.

You're still making the assumption Leclerc would be able to make an overtake and hold on with softs on the end, but there is no proof from the race that any driver on the softs managed to have any sort of good pace beyond 5 laps.

If that's just a belief you have then and nothing I say will change your mind.

The facts of the matter are that Leclerc didn't have good enough pace to make a difference in the second stint. He couldn't get within Russell's DRS and couldn't break further than 2s away from Lando who served a 5s penalty as well.
If you think out of nowhere Leclerc would have race-leading pace on a (what would have been) 15-17 lap long stint on the softs at best, then that's clearly a far cry based on what we saw from other cars.

[CjC]

If only Lando had lined up correctly, not received a 5 second penalty, he would have been able to show his true pace and finish P2 so Leclerc’s maximum potential this race was P3 not P2