2025 McLaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

Oscar totally owned the line at the first corner and showed no fear of Max in the line to turn 2, with Max being the dtiver who had to bail.

That was a strong ballsy move.

It's exactly the type of move to take away that "let me go or we crash". Max knows both Norris and Piastri can be WDC this year. Crashing with either one would increase the gap to the other one.

To be fair, if we look at it in isolation, if Max held it on the track on outside and they had a crash, Piastri would be at fault as he was the car overtaking. But Max can't do that because he will lose points to Lando. So he abuses the penalty system and clear air to get the best for him. So let's use that against Max, fight him hard willing to crash so he can't abuse the system as he usually tries.

What annoys me is that both Max and Horner know they did it on purpose. They know that by keeping the clear air they gained more than they lost with the penalty but they are faking outrage.

Exactly. I said as much to Farnborough before the race. This is not a binary championship so it is less likely to make hard binary choices.


I'm sure Max is outraged to be fair. I'm not going to say it was harsh, but you can see some stewards not giving it. I'm not sure if Max could have made the corner or not but he went across the corner like he was on the racing line.

[FittingMechanics]

Oscar totally owned the line at the first corner and showed no fear of Max in the line to turn 2, with Max being the dtiver who had to bail.

That was a strong ballsy move.

It's exactly the type of move to take away that "let me go or we crash". Max knows both Norris and Piastri can be WDC this year. Crashing with either one would increase the gap to the other one.

To be fair, if we look at it in isolation, if Max held it on the track on outside and they had a crash, Piastri would be at fault as he was the car overtaking. But Max can't do that because he will lose points to Lando. So he abuses the penalty system and clear air to get the best for him. So let's use that against Max, fight him hard willing to crash so he can't abuse the system as he usually tries.

What annoys me is that both Max and Horner know they did it on purpose. They know that by keeping the clear air they gained more than they lost with the penalty but they are faking outrage.

Exactly. I said as much to Farnborough before the race. This is not a binary championship so it is less likely to make hard binary choices.


I'm sure Max is outraged to be fair. I'm not going to say it was harsh, but you can see some stewards not giving it. I'm not sure if Max could have made the corner or not but he went across the corner like he was on the racing line.

If this happened once we could say he made a genuine attempt to make the corner but reality is this is one of signature Max moves and usually he keeps the inside, let's off his brakes and then forces the other car off.

He knows what he is doing. It is 100% intentional.

Norris struggled to counter it last year finally managed to figure it out in the latter part. Piastri did it well here.

[mwillems]

I've no doubt it was on purpose, just don't think it was tbe worst Max move.

"Norris struggled to counter it last year finally managed to figure it out in the latter part. Piastri did it well here"

It's a 4 way championship, Max cannot be as robust as he was last year. In a binary championship where you are ahead, letting both cars be damaged and not yielding a place is advantageous as you keep the championship lead and take away another race that could have closed the gap.

Now you have Lando and George ready to capitalise if you drop points, so Max' options are narrowed.

[Ben1980]

I'm not really sure Max did much wrong in the building up, and he did gain an advantage by going off. So, not really seeing an issue.

He also probably did the right thing by not giving the place back. And hoping something works out.

I think he wins though if Oscar didn't get the good start on him.

[Slahinki]

Oscar totally owned the line at the first corner and showed no fear of Max in the line to turn 2, with Max being the dtiver who had to bail.

That was a strong ballsy move.

It's exactly the type of move to take away that "let me go or we crash". Max knows both Norris and Piastri can be WDC this year. Crashing with either one would increase the gap to the other one.

To be fair, if we look at it in isolation, if Max held it on the track on outside and they had a crash, Piastri would be at fault as he was the car overtaking. But Max can't do that because he will lose points to Lando. So he abuses the penalty system and clear air to get the best for him. So let's use that against Max, fight him hard willing to crash so he can't abuse the system as he usually tries.

What annoys me is that both Max and Horner know they did it on purpose. They know that by keeping the clear air they gained more than they lost with the penalty but they are faking outrage.

The whole of that team comes off as whingy brats once something doesn't go their way. It's easily the least likeable team currently on the grid, and has been for a long, long, time.

[De Wet]

Nice one by Osc and a good recovery by Lando. LEC had super strong race, so not realistic to get on podium.
Oscar finishing only 2.7s ahead of VER in "dominant" Mcl car, can't wait for all the explanations how did that happen.

Well its great news for the season. No one wants to see Mclaren dominate. Hopefully our worst fears have been put to bed.

What do you mean? I know people who would not mind Mclaren domination you keep on promising, myself included.
I can't wait until we see that 0.7s a lap advantage folks keep on bringing up. Horner did not forget to bring up 1.1s FP3 pace advange twice during the interview prerace on the grid, perhaps that's where these rumors come from amongst others.

I'm one of them.

[Farnborough]

The press generally like to amp up the rhetoric and push reactions, of course they are looking at themselves and their own perceived importance as bystanders in most sports

There are things like this though

[BMMR61]

With all the discussion about T1 L1, the only controversy should be about Red Bull deciding not to give the position back. It looked like a cynical decision to use track position to leave OP in the dirty air and try to regain the 5 seconds they would lose. It almost worked for them and really the rewards decision would have looked lame if Max were to manage to keep the lead through the pitstops. This cynical sort of play should be sorted out. McLaren gave the position back to Lewis last week when Lando couldn't stay within track limits. Red Bull and Max Verstappen take their winning determination to a level many think is unacceptable. A shame because I like Max the driver and the person, it's just that he can't stop crossing that line.

[Ben1980]

With all the discussion about T1 L1, the only controversy should be about Red Bull deciding not to give the position back. It looked like a cynical decision to use track position to leave OP in the dirty air and try to regain the 5 seconds they would lose. It almost worked for them and really the rewards decision would have looked lame if Max were to manage to keep the lead through the pitstops. This cynical sort of play should be sorted out. McLaren gave the position back to Lewis last week when Lando couldn't stay within track limits. Red Bull and Max Verstappen take their winning determination to a level many think is unacceptable. A shame because I like Max the driver and the person, it's just that he can't stop crossing that line.

It was the correct thing to do, for a team point of view. It was the only way to win after the penalty.

But, with the safety car so soon after the incident, there was not much time to do it anyway.

But, it wasn't wrong to do that.

[rbirules]

With all the discussion about T1 L1, the only controversy should be about Red Bull deciding not to give the position back. It looked like a cynical decision to use track position to leave OP in the dirty air and try to regain the 5 seconds they would lose. It almost worked for them and really the rewards decision would have looked lame if Max were to manage to keep the lead through the pitstops. This cynical sort of play should be sorted out. McLaren gave the position back to Lewis last week when Lando couldn't stay within track limits. Red Bull and Max Verstappen take their winning determination to a level many think is unacceptable. A shame because I like Max the driver and the person, it's just that he can't stop crossing that line.

It was the correct thing to do, for a team point of view. It was the only way to win after the penalty.

But, with the safety car so soon after the incident, there was not much time to do it anyway.

But, it wasn't wrong to do that.

Exactly this, the two incidents are not the same. Lando did not give the place back to Lewis immediately, he gave it back almost exactly one lap later (going into turn 4). Max couldn't have done this because by that point there was a SC and you can't change places under a SC, and then the penalty was given out before the SC ended. Not saying Red Bull/Max would have given the place back even if they had a longer time to consider that option, but they really didn't have much time to do that. Not to mention the SC was brought on by an accident involving their other car so I'm sure that took some of their attention as well.

[mwillems]

It's Max's perogative to stay ahead. He maybe felt that on turn 1 he had every right to be there. He wasn't that far off. I'm not sure hewould have had to go.off track.if Oscar left toom, but of course Oscar rightly recognised it was his corner and line and bullied Max off it.

Since the battles with Lando and Max, they tightened up the application of the rules on overtakes and as long as they continue to apply it consistently then we can take advantage ourselves if the opportunity arises.

I'm happy that turn 1 advantages are punished less, we don't want them to stop trying.

[Tvetovnato]

It's Max's perogative to stay ahead. He maybe felt that on turn 1 he had every right to be there. He wasn't that far off. I'm not sure hewould have had to go.off track.if Oscar left toom, but of course Oscar rightly recognised it was his corner and line and bullied Max off it.

Since the battles with Lando and Max, they tightened up the application of the rules on overtakes and as long as they continue to apply it consistently then we can take advantage ourselves if the opportunity arises.

I'm happy that turn 1 advantages are punished less, we don't want them to stop trying.

I’m not sure I agree with this first lap leniency idea fully. It needs to be used very carefully. I think it can work when there is an obvious tricky situation to judge with multiple cars involved in turn one for example and it’s not easy to anticipate where all cars will go, but when it is obvious that someone is trying to game the system or it is clear that the driver could and should have taken another decision since the opportunity to do so was there, I see no reason to let them off the hook just because it’s lap one.

[FittingMechanics]

Exactly this, the two incidents are not the same. Lando did not give the place back to Lewis immediately, he gave it back almost exactly one lap later (going into turn 4). Max couldn't have done this because by that point there was a SC and you can't change places under a SC, and then the penalty was given out before the SC ended. Not saying Red Bull/Max would have given the place back even if they had a longer time to consider that option, but they really didn't have much time to do that. Not to mention the SC was brought on by an accident involving their other car so I'm sure that took some of their attention as well.

It is very likely that if Red Bull said they will give the position back that it wouldn't get sent to the stewards as fast.

We need to be honest, Max was not going to give that position back regardless of SC because he knew that staying ahead was best chance of a good result for him.

[FittingMechanics]

It's Max's perogative to stay ahead. He maybe felt that on turn 1 he had every right to be there. He wasn't that far off. I'm not sure hewould have had to go.off track.if Oscar left toom, but of course Oscar rightly recognised it was his corner and line and bullied Max off it.

Since the battles with Lando and Max, they tightened up the application of the rules on overtakes and as long as they continue to apply it consistently then we can take advantage ourselves if the opportunity arises.

I'm happy that turn 1 advantages are punished less, we don't want them to stop trying.

Going logically, if Piastri on a tighter line managed to make the corner then Max would as well on a wider one. They were both at same speed and with same braking level. That is true.

I think the solution for car on the outside to not yield. If the car stays on the outside and inside car crashes into him, the situation would be clear as day.

[mwillems]

It's Max's perogative to stay ahead. He maybe felt that on turn 1 he had every right to be there. He wasn't that far off. I'm not sure hewould have had to go.off track.if Oscar left toom, but of course Oscar rightly recognised it was his corner and line and bullied Max off it.

Since the battles with Lando and Max, they tightened up the application of the rules on overtakes and as long as they continue to apply it consistently then we can take advantage ourselves if the opportunity arises.

I'm happy that turn 1 advantages are punished less, we don't want them to stop trying.

I’m not sure I agree with this first lap leniency idea fully. It needs to be used very carefully. I think it can work when there is an obvious tricky situation to judge with multiple cars involved in turn one for example and it’s not easy to anticipate where all cars will go, but when it is obvious that someone is trying to game the system or it is clear that the driver could and should have taken another decision since the opportunity to do so was there, I see no reason to let them off the hook just because it’s lap one.

It's more first corner in my mind. It can be carnage there and it is one of the most exciting parts of the race, you don't want to stop that.

I'm happy with the penalty, just don't think a ten second penalty is fair, I think the 5 second penalty was fine. Either that or give the stewards the ability to mandate a position swap.