2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Cs98]

I don’t think Marko is saying Merc upgraded the engine, just that a new engine gives a bit more power naturally. Still, RB brought new engines last race so the deficit should not be large. To me it’s a combination of two things, a slightly bigger wing than the competition and slightly worse deployment. The deployment deficit has been apparent since 2024, it’s an area where Honda was the best in 2022 but Merc now is.

[Bill]

all talk about straightline speed but the big talking point should be upgrades have they worked because the whole season depends on them

[Sergej]

all talk about straightline speed but the big talking point should be upgrades have they worked because the whole season depends on them

Max was able to improve by 3 tenths on used tyres which is a positive, but today and tomorrow we will have a better picture.

Still, this straight line speed thing deserves some analysis, could be a problem in the races.

[venkyhere]

IF we look at the lap traces from SQ2 on the M tyre, the losses to competition is in the slow corners due to understeer. Its only when RB21 has the soft tyre (both SQ3 runs) that the 'straights' show losses whilst the slow corner losses are reduced. Its puzzling, and I have no clue what's going on.

[CjC]

IF we look at the lap traces from SQ2 on the M tyre, the losses to competition is in the slow corners due to understeer. Its only when RB21 has the soft tyre (both SQ3 runs) that the 'straights' show losses whilst the slow corner losses are reduced. Its puzzling, and I have no clue what's going on.

The new soft tyre giving better grip to mask the understeer?

[Cs98]

IF we look at the lap traces from SQ2 on the M tyre, the losses to competition is in the slow corners due to understeer. Its only when RB21 has the soft tyre (both SQ3 runs) that the 'straights' show losses whilst the slow corner losses are reduced. Its puzzling, and I have no clue what's going on.

Because Max had massive tows on both straights in SQ2. SQ3 is more representative.

[Sergej]

We know how to use Yuki tonight

[kurtj]

Engine power advantage, is a misleading detail. Max lost to Kimi on the slow corners and up until then, he was up on Kimi. The top speed difference was only 3kph.

[organic]

Engine power advantage, is a misleading detail. Max lost to Kimi on the slow corners and up until then, he was up on Kimi. The top speed difference was only 3kph.

https://i.postimg.cc/C1p35TwR/miami2.jpg

Look at the delta moving on every straight. Losses in straight-line total over 2 tenths

[Emag]

They were definitely losing time on the straights, but I feel like Max would have been a lot closer on better tire condition for his second lap.

[ME4ME]

I don’t think Marko is saying Merc upgraded the engine, just that a new engine gives a bit more power naturally. Still, RB brought new engines last race so the deficit should not be large. ...

Could be that they're running the old engine for the Sprint race with only 8 points on the table.

[Sergej]

The straight losses start immediately after the turns, so I'm not sure it's aero related, seems more a lack of traction or a different deployment.

[Cs98]

I don’t think Marko is saying Merc upgraded the engine, just that a new engine gives a bit more power naturally. Still, RB brought new engines last race so the deficit should not be large. ...

Could be that they're running the old engine for the Sprint race with only 8 points on the table.

There's only 3 hours between the end of the sprint and quali.

[Juzh]

The straight losses start immediately after the turns, so I'm not sure it's aero related, seems more a lack of traction or a different deployment.

Nothing is wrong with the deployment. What we're seeing is pure lack of grunt, otherwise loses would primarily manifest only in top end, but as it is they are present throughout entire acceleration phase. I've been saying it since late last year that honda PU has somehow been caught and even overtaken by merc/ferrari in the freeze era. what is also likely is RB18, RB19 and early RB20 were making honda look better than it actually was all along. Margin are small but now almost ever-present, so at some point people will have to start acknowledging it.

anyway, here's verstappen's lap
https://streamable.com/es8o3v

[basti313]

The straight losses start immediately after the turns, so I'm not sure it's aero related, seems more a lack of traction or a different deployment.

Nothing is wrong with the deployment. What we're seeing is pure lack of grunt, otherwise loses would primarily manifest only in top end, but as it is they are present throughout entire acceleration phase. I've been saying it since late last year that honda PU has somehow been caught and even overtaken by merc/ferrari in the freeze era. what is also likely is RB18, RB19 and early RB20 were making honda look better than it actually was all along. Margin are small but now almost ever-present, so at some point people will have to start acknowledging it.

To me this is still puzzling: I never throught the Honda is particularly good. For some time it was a one-trick-pony, that had an ERS system that was deploying like crazy over one lap. We saw this on crucial in-laps in the race or in Q3. The Merc had also a strong deployment mode, but could always keep this up for ~3 laps, still not as strong over one lap.
So this lap now is completely in contrast to what I would say was the intrinsic feature of this engine. Why is this lost?