Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[De Jokke]

Considering there is news about their 2010 challenger, let's get started, I would say :



Q: With only two races to go the focus must be on the 2010 car. How far along is that process?
MW: The car is very developed. Aerodynamically it is already superior to this car because we were able to work with the regulations as they are now being interpreted. So one can imagine that there is a relatively extreme double diffuser system on the car and it is quite a radical departure from this year’s car. We’re spending all our development resources on that project and it looks exciting. We will have a very competitive car next year, because frankly if not, you can’t win a championship as we did this year.

MW very optimistic but they really have still some catching up to do from this year's car, so the question will be: will it be enough? I'm expecting a mcl chasing fer performance again in 2010.

[Callum]

I think we're going to see McLaren and Red Bull at it nextyear, i'm not sure if Brawn are going to be able to keep up development with the big boys. But it's just speculation - who knows how they will get on with massive fuel tanks.

[JamesS]

If McLaren have found something which further stretches the rules they are not going to show their hand too early on this years car.

The 2009 car is probably .3 or .4 away from the top. With some circuits being kind to them due to KERs and Lewis' talent, but its clear they still lack down force over the complete range.

I think the KERs teams this year will have a head start with the larger fuel tank though. They have worked very hard to figure out the balance of their cars carrying the extra electronics package, all this data can be easily applied to a larger, heavier fuel tank.

[De Jokke]

Hi, just read on another forum that someone read that the 25 has already about 25% more downforce than the 24. Dunno if it's true... but if it is: that's epic!

[deus1066]

I think the KERs teams this year will have a head start with the larger fuel tank though. They have worked very hard to figure out the balance of their cars carrying the extra electronics package, all this data can be easily applied to a larger, heavier fuel tank.

Having said that, with the thinner front tyres and increase in minimum weight, the persuit to get the weight forward will probably not be so much of an issue.

[ISLAMATRON]

yes the teams will actually be moving ballast backwards now, those new front tires will be severely stressed next year.

[bar555]

The larger fuel cells will force the 2010 F1 cars to have a longer wheelbase ( alongside with the thinner tyres ), which favors further a ballast movement to the rear .

[Callum]

Hi, just read on another forum that someone read that the 25 has already about 25% more downforce than the 24. Dunno if it's true... but if it is: that's epic!

Some of this will be due to the larger car having a bigger undertray.. but 25% does seem a masssive amount.

[vasia]

The larger fuel cells will force the 2010 F1 cars to have a longer wheelbase ( alongside with the thinner tyres ), which favors further a ballast movement to the rear .

This could be an advantage for teams that were running longer wheelbase cars this year, like Red Bull or Toyota. Problem for Red Bull is, they still don't know what engines they will be using. That will likely cause some delays with their car.

Hi, just read on another forum that someone read that the 25 has already about 25% more downforce than the 24. Dunno if it's true... but if it is: that's epic!

Some of this will be due to the larger car having a bigger undertray.. but 25% does seem a masssive amount.

Very possible. The MP4-24 is down quite a fair amount still on downforce compared to the Brawn, Red Bull, or Toyota.

Red Bull and Toyota are quite likely to improve the downforce levels for their new cars anywhere from 10% and higher.

If we roughly say the MP4-24 is down 10% on downforce to this year's top cars, then a 25% increase will really only put them on a roughly even level with what the top cars are projected to have next year.

As for the KERS teams having an advantage with carrying the KERS ballast, I don't think it will be that big of an advantage. The KERS ballast was always a static weight. The huge fuel tank; that will be a dynamically changing weight. With every lap, the fuel tank will get lighter and will have less volume of fuel in it, affecting the car and it's balance in a variety of ways.

[De Jokke]

Some more info from Whitmarsh:

I know it is already a quicker car (than mp4/24) inherently and has good momentum, and good progress is continuing to be made day-by-day.

“I think we have accepted the interpretation of the regulations now, because at the beginning of this year we didn't have the same interpretation as some other teams. We didn't make a noise about that, because frankly we had our own work to do, but I think we've taken full advantage with next year's car.

“Everyone has been working hard and I've every confidence that we will come out of the box with a competitive car at the beginning of next year, but we have a lot of tough competitors and I'm sure that Ferrari and other teams are pushing equally hard. No-one here is complacent that it will be easy to go out there and win races, but I really believe we will be up there.”

[horse]

How extreme can the double diffuser be anyway? Surely there is only so much space the diffuser can occupy and then only so much space in which the double deck can be used. Is it more about altering airflow about the car to go through the diffuser? Will this increase the low pressure zone at the rear and what effect does this have on packaging?

Also, I recall Ross Brawn saying the diffuser was not the only conceptually important part of their car early in the season. Was this a bluff or is he referring to the car being designed with under body airflow as a priority?

[ISLAMATRON]

The teams could start running triple deck diffusers and maybe a quadruple! Ross says that the DDD wasnt the only trick they had yet once everyone else had them they went from winning 6 out of 7 to only winning 2 out of 9... seems like a bluff to me.

[Ciro Pabón]

I encourage all of you to post links to the quotes you put forward, even if it's a forum. It gives more substance to the contributions. Pretty please?

[axle]

The teams could start running triple deck diffusers and maybe a quadruple! Ross says that the DDD wasnt the only trick they had yet once everyone else had them they went from winning 6 out of 7 to only winning 2 out of 9... seems like a bluff to me.

Yes but don't forget the BGP01 wasn't optomised either. They had to literally chop the chassis to fit the engine in and it was never sorted during the season as the tubs cost too much. So, the car was always compromised. So whilst others caught up and optomised their packages Brawn were always slightly lame.

I'll be interested to see how many cars copy the RB5 and how many copy the Brawn. IMO the MP4/24 is now looking remarkably similar to the BGP01.

[vasia]

The teams could start running triple deck diffusers and maybe a quadruple! Ross says that the DDD wasnt the only trick they had yet once everyone else had them they went from winning 6 out of 7 to only winning 2 out of 9... seems like a bluff to me.

Toyota tested a triple-deck diffuser design earlier in the season.

I think some of you are reading too much into this. It might be an "extreme radical" design by McLaren's standards, but it might be really not that spectacular considering some of the diffuser designs seen in testing this year.

Anyways, we shall see.