2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Darth-Piekus]

Lets not undersell our drivers. The car is not driving itself magically and its really the first time we got the correct conditions to show pace and as you just said that was last years Max with last year Oscar and last year Lando. The difference is that Max still had the best car in Miami and it wasnt till Hungary where we brought the update that sent us in front so lets not pretend the cars were equal. Another difference is that Oscar has nothing to do with last years Oscar. Hes improved dramatically while both Lando and Max stayed the same. Sure you can agree that Oscar has the car but he doesnt make mistakes, doesnt get bullied, is cold, improved his qualifying, improved his tyre wear and has made better starts than Max so far. I dont see why we shouldn't credit him.

[Watto]

Oscar needs to beat Lando on race pace first lol

He's a very talented and well rounded driver. But not on Max' level. Max is one of the best ever.

Oscars consistency has definitely improved, he's a small bit better with the tyres but still behind Lando and his one lap pace is almost on a par with Lando. But Max would likely eat Lando for breakfast.

Oscars biggest advantage over Lando I think is far more willing to do the unconventional in overtakes one thing didn't work so do something else seen it with duels against Max this year but I though more telling was I can't recall the race but late last year he qualified behind Lando they were both defending Max coming into the first corner Oscar a little cheekyly pulled one over on Lando and overtook catching Lando by surprise, it was clean no risk of a collision but I think just showed out opportunistic Oscar is and not something I think Lando would thing about attempting.


Lando vs Oscar in a race distance with no one around them Lando would win more often than not slightly better with tyre management and still also better on pure lap pace imo - but gee he has closed the gap.

[mwillems]

Oscar this year doesnt make mistakes and is the most stable driver of all.

I would say this only if one of the McL drivers manages to pull a Q3 without a yellow sector in the last attempt...

Oscar needs to beat Lando on race pace first lol

No. It is still not the question who WINs the WDC. It is the and only question who of the two fumbles it.
Still worst case scenario for McL is that both keep on fumbling...remember this is still the only weekend where they both did not fumble points and managed to extract the cars advantage.

But Max would likely eat Lando for breakfast.

No, I do not think so. But I am quite sure Lando will spill the ketchup or similar and look silly in a competitive breakfast. But even with a small fumble he would be good at it otherwise.

I wasn't talking about the WDC, I was just saying that you can't say Oscar is as good as Max when he doesn't yet have the race pace/tyre management of his own teammate.

For me, it is unquestionable that Max can extract more from his cars than Lando, and his feel for wet conditions is exemplary. But these conversations are very subjective.

[Macklaren]

Yes, it is the best car of all time. I hope that it takes away that throne from RB19. If that makes you sleep better, there you go.

If the MCL39 can win every remaining race, it will easily take the best average finish over the season crown. Is that with the RB19 or still with the MP4/4?

First of all, highly unlikely at this point.
The current record is from RB19. Both cars won all races but one, but since 2023 had more races, the win percentage is higher for RBR.

Ummm I don't think it's highly unlikely though yes it will an amazing feat
Pretty sure the McLaren still is the winningest car for average finish across the team over the season. Also not McLarens fault that seasons were longer now than before so the overall honors are shared as well

[Ben1980]

Lets not undersell our drivers. The car is not driving itself magically and its really the first time we got the correct conditions to show pace and as you just said that was last years Max with last year Oscar and last year Lando. The difference is that Max still had the best car in Miami and it wasnt till Hungary where we brought the update that sent us in front so lets not pretend the cars were equal. Another difference is that Oscar has nothing to do with last years Oscar. Hes improved dramatically while both Lando and Max stayed the same. Sure you can agree that Oscar has the car but he doesnt make mistakes, doesnt get bullied, is cold, improved his qualifying, improved his tyre wear and has made better starts than Max so far. I dont see why we shouldn't credit him.

Oscar has had tons of credit. No one is doubting that. But, 6 races, not faultless weekends either, dont suddenly make him comparable to a 4 time world champion who has over 110 poles and over 50 more wins.

Just this weekend Oscar qualified 4th. He has made qualifying mistakes aswell.

He's good, but let's not announce him yet.

[mwillems]

Oscar needs to beat Lando on race pace first lol

He's a very talented and well rounded driver. But not on Max' level. Max is one of the best ever.

Oscars consistency has definitely improved, he's a small bit better with the tyres but still behind Lando and his one lap pace is almost on a par with Lando. But Max would likely eat Lando for breakfast.

Oscars biggest advantage over Lando I think is far more willing to do the unconventional in overtakes one thing didn't work so do something else seen it with duels against Max this year but I though more telling was I can't recall the race but late last year he qualified behind Lando they were both defending Max coming into the first corner Oscar a little cheekyly pulled one over on Lando and overtook catching Lando by surprise, it was clean no risk of a collision but I think just showed out opportunistic Oscar is and not something I think Lando would thing about attempting.


Lando vs Oscar in a race distance with no one around them Lando would win more often than not slightly better with tyre management and still also better on pure lap pace imo - but gee he has closed the gap.

Agreed. I think Oscar is a more instinctual driver. Lando seems to be a voracious learner and develops relentlessly. I've no doubt he'll come to terms with this car sooner rather than later. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

[mwillems]

If the MCL39 can win every remaining race, it will easily take the best average finish over the season crown. Is that with the RB19 or still with the MP4/4?

First of all, highly unlikely at this point.
The current record is from RB19. Both cars won all races but one, but since 2023 had more races, the win percentage is higher for RBR.

Ummm I don't think it's highly unlikely though yes it will an amazing feat
Pretty sure the McLaren still is the winningest car for average finish across the team over the season. Also not McLarens fault that seasons were longer now than before so the overall honors are shared as well

Winningest.

Oh help me god, we should get the moderators in for that alone.

[Darth-Piekus]

Ben have in mind that Max has 10 years of experience in F1 while Oscar is in his third. Remember Max on his third year? He was nowhere near where Oscar is now. Also just to correct. Max has 43 poles and 64 wins on the most dominant car in history. Oscar recently started to leave his mark. Hes definately not without mistakes but compared to the other two he has done less and is 1st on merit.

[basti313]

Lando seems to be a voracious learner and develops relentlessly.

??? Where did you see him developing? Interesting statement after a weekend with a bottled Q3, bottled lap1 and schooled around several laps when trying to overtake. The sum of everything that went wrong last year?

I think the missing development is actually his weakness. Just like 2021 when he simply over did it twice in the rain fumbling wins/podiums subsequently.
I think his utter strength is in contrast to this the short term learning. What you call race speed. Once he can circle the track without disturbance, he keeps on improving and starts operating in perfection.

[mwillems]

Lando seems to be a voracious learner and develops relentlessly.

??? Where did you see him developing? Interesting statement after a weekend with a bottled Q3, bottled lap1 and schooled around several laps when trying to overtake. The sum of everything that went wrong last year?

I think the missing development is actually his weakness. Just like 2021 when he simply over did it twice in the rain fumbling wins/podiums subsequently.
I think his utter strength is in contrast to this the short term learning. What you call race speed. Once he can circle the track without disturbance, he keeps on improving and starts operating in perfection.

The conversation was about the difference between drivers, not one race. Lando is a thinker and sometimes an overthinker. Many times the team have commented on his ability to study the data, adapt and find time. He's always come across that way to me too. Makes advances on his pace every year but no big jumps. I don't think he has ever set the world alight with natural talent. I don't doubt for that reason he'll get to grips with this car. Oscar seems a bit more of a natural racer and races more instinctively. Both have pro's and con's.

Decision making is a different thing, and my opinions there have been clear for some time.

[Ben1980]

Lando seems to be a voracious learner and develops relentlessly.

??? Where did you see him developing? Interesting statement after a weekend with a bottled Q3, bottled lap1 and schooled around several laps when trying to overtake. The sum of everything that went wrong last year?

I think the missing development is actually his weakness. Just like 2021 when he simply over did it twice in the rain fumbling wins/podiums subsequently.
I think his utter strength is in contrast to this the short term learning. What you call race speed. Once he can circle the track without disturbance, he keeps on improving and starts operating in perfection.

Bottled?

Why do people keep using this phrase when it's not really the case.

[Ben1980]

Lando seems to be a voracious learner and develops relentlessly.

??? Where did you see him developing? Interesting statement after a weekend with a bottled Q3, bottled lap1 and schooled around several laps when trying to overtake. The sum of everything that went wrong last year?

I think the missing development is actually his weakness. Just like 2021 when he simply over did it twice in the rain fumbling wins/podiums subsequently.
I think his utter strength is in contrast to this the short term learning. What you call race speed. Once he can circle the track without disturbance, he keeps on improving and starts operating in perfection.

The conversation was about the difference between drivers, not one race. Lando is a thinker and sometimes an overthinker. Many times the team have commented on his ability to study the data, adapt and find time. He's always come across that way to me too. Makes advances on his pace every year but no big jumps. I don't think he has ever set the world alight with natural talent. I don't doubt for that reason he'll get to grips with this car. Oscar seems a bit more of a natural racer and races more instinctively. Both have pro's and con's.

Decision making is a different thing, and my opinions there have been clear for some time.

You say about natural talent, but it's interesting that he came through with Russell and Albon in f2, with Norris being 2 (?) Years younger. His talent always had him against older rivals.

[CjC]

Stella thinks the race pace advantage comes from the cooling system…… of the car, no mention about the tyres

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... WsXXDpSc95

[Seerix]

Stella thinks the race pace advantage comes from the cooling system…… of the car, no mention about the tyres

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... WsXXDpSc95

Must be the water

[SoulPancake13]

Forgive me if it's been mentioned here, but I am fascinated by the behavior of the car in the race. Looking at onboards you can hear the car porpoising on the straights, but as soon as they enter a fast corner it is resolved and they lose no real time. Then obviously, they are set up softly for a mega S2. Reminds me of the F1-75 pre TD in a way... slow on the straight but crazy quick in corners and can deal with the bouncing just fine