2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Quantum]

Mercedes is about as useful in ‘25 as Red Bull are. It’s not over until it’s over. George is 5 points of Max, and people think Max still has a chance. #4 is getting frustrated. It’s going to go Ham-Nico soon enough, you know best what that looks like

The rules around brake cooling are not being thrown away. Much of it is recycled. Most of the rulebooks are recycled year over year other than key conceptual changes like the PU and the floor. This year can still have an impact on next year.

I'd say RB and Merc are fairly evens to be fair. And it all hinges on what happens in Spain as to any designs of a title challenge for Max. I don't think Merc have any hopes for the title realistically given they might be affected by the Spain ruling too.

And yes my previous post alluded to what would be useful to develop in 2025....How macca make their tyres work is directly correlated to their braking system.

[AR3-GP]

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[Lasssept]

Andrew Shovlin: McLaren were the class of the field once again today and we are working hard to close that gap. Overall, we leave Miami pleased we have added more points to our tally compared to Red Bull and Ferrari, but knowing we have got work to do if we are to challenge at the very front each weekend. Our single lap has been a strength, but we need to improve our long run pace. Hopefully we can make some gains in this area starting in Imola in two weeks’ time.

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/reports/r ... d-in-miami

[DiogoBrand]

I'd say RB and Merc are fairly evens to be fair. And it all hinges on what happens in Spain as to any designs of a title challenge for Max. I don't think Merc have any hopes for the title realistically given they might be affected by the Spain ruling too.

And yes my previous post alluded to what would be useful to develop in 2025....How macca make their tyres work is directly correlated to their braking system.

Attemping to copy someone is always a route one can take, but Mercedes has been chasing these regulations in general for the last 4 years. So we don't know how long it will take or if they will even be successful in replicating the brake cooling scheme that Mclaren is doing. I simply think Toto was more useful in his old form. Of course I also criticized him then (lol), but that was for different reasons. Herr Wolff and his bite was an asset to the silver team. He singlehandedly broke Ferrari mid-2022 and they have never really recovered from it. That's the Toto Wolff that Mercedes needs today.

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're expecting to happen exactly?
So far I've seen that Toto needs to become more aggressive in his politics and do something to slow the McLarens down, also someone needs to find out what illegal advantage McLaren has at the moment, and also Toto needs to hire Max Verstappen after all of that so he can win another WDC?
Forgive me if I got it wrong, I'm just a bit confused.

[AR3-GP]

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[DiogoBrand]

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're expecting to happen exactly?
So far I've seen that Toto needs to become more aggressive in his politics and do something to slow the McLarens down,

Yes.

also someone needs to find out what advantage McLaren has at the moment,

Yes, that's also correct. Wolff was so persistent and aggressive towards Ferrari and Red Bull in 2021 and 2022 and often times he got his way (pit stops slowed, rear wing test changed, plank rules changed, floor rules changed). He's so quiet now that Mclaren is ahead. He lost his competitiveness.

It can also just be that he will be more aggressive to gain that extra edge when he is in a close title fight, but right now he still thinks there's more work to be done on his own car and trying to slow the other teams down alone wouldn't be enough. I mean, apart from maybe McLaren, Mercedes has the most improved car on the grid from last year, so this strategy seems to be working. Maybe in the future when they're closer he'll go back to the politics games to try to gain an advantage on that.
I'm not sure if this makes any sense.

[AR3-GP]

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[DiogoBrand]

Yes.



Yes, that's also correct. Wolff was so persistent and aggressive towards Ferrari and Red Bull in 2021 and 2022 and often times he got his way (pit stops slowed, rear wing test changed, plank rules changed, floor rules changed). He's so quiet now that Mclaren is ahead. He lost his competitiveness.

It can also just be that he will be more aggressive to gain that extra edge when he is in a close title fight, but right now he still thinks there's more work to be done on his own car and trying to slow the other teams down alone wouldn't be enough. I mean, apart from maybe McLaren, Mercedes has the most improved car on the grid from last year, so this strategy seems to be working. Maybe in the future when they're closer he'll go back to the politics games to try to gain an advantage on that.
I'm not sure if this makes any sense.

The championship was close (and it still is not too late),b ut Toto has taken too long. The perception of Mclaren being "ahead" depends on the exploits that they are using and what the other teams are able to politic away from them. Succesfully win a political battle to take something away from the Mclaren, and the championship can look very different. It's too early to have given up.

It's what he tried in 2022. Mercedes was far off at the start, but he had been working since the start of the year to disrupt the playing field and it worked partially. Ferrari never recovered from TD039.

Mercedes can only hope that the TD at the Spanish round cripples that Mclaren, but that would be to the credit of Christian Horner.

What is illegal about McLaren's car that's giving them such an advantage?

[AR3-GP]

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[Quantum]

Attemping to copy someone is always a route one can take, but Mercedes has been chasing these regulations in general for the last 4 years. So we don't know how long it will take or if they will even be successful in replicating the brake cooling scheme that Mclaren is doing. I simply think Toto was more useful in his old form. Of course I also criticized him then (lol), but that was for different reasons. Herr Wolff and his bite was an asset to the silver team. He singlehandedly broke Ferrari mid-2022 and they have never really recovered from it. That's the Toto Wolff that Mercedes needs today.

I mean he wanted a uniform solution to the porpoising. That wasn't aimed at Ferrari. Of course he also had the hope any directive would help Mercedes. As intrinsically, they were screwed.

And I completely disagree with Toto being different presently or Merc purportedly needing "the old" one. You look over at Ferrari and the same nonsense surrounding that team has now been banished from Merc.
We were led to believe Toto was asleep at the wheel then, too.

The porpoising phenomena is one of the most complicated to replicate and in no way a direct comparison to a brake cooling innovation. They're 2 very different things that do not stand up to equivalent comparison.
We had the Red Bull team boss make an absolute clown of himself with water in tyres, and a host of other sour comments that had no impact at all. Like Brown said, if you don't like it protest why it's illegal.

Merc are doing the flexiwing stuff (as evidently are Red Bull from Miami videos) so that would leave the brake cooling system as something Toto could whine about. But, why would he if he can't say it's illegal? That's just Horner levels of cope. As I recall, for each issue Toto had evidence of either illegality or a single time with safety concerns for the driver (porpoising).

On what grounds do you want a completely different Toto, to lodge protests about something he can't prove?

[AR3-GP]

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[ringo]

Russell can catch Max. No one is saying it but he is getting more out of his slightly slower car.
Squabbling at the front and a bit of fortune has helped George, but his consistency is mostly why.

[Lasssept]

[SB15]

B Sport - F1 2025 McLaren’s Tyre Management Advantage (Part 2)

Take this video with a great of salt, but if this is anywhere close to how McLaren is getting their temperatures in a relative window, it is both exceptionally clever and very innovative design. Even if the McLaren does get affected the TD, they are still extremely confident that no other team will be able to copy this concept.

We’ll just have to wait and see what James Allison came up with for imola.

[Hammerfist]

The championship was close (and it still is not too late),b ut Toto has taken too long. The perception of Mclaren being "ahead" depends on the exploits that they are using and what the other teams are able to politic away from them. Succesfully win a political battle to take something away from the Mclaren, and the championship can look very different. It's too early to have given up.

It's what he tried in 2022. Mercedes was far off at the start, but he had been working since the start of the year to disrupt the playing field and it worked partially. Ferrari never recovered from TD039.

Mercedes can only hope that the TD at the Spanish round cripples that Mclaren, but that would be to the credit of Christian Horner.

What is illegal about McLaren's car that's giving them such an advantage?

Nothing has to be illegal. Red Bull's pitstops were not illegal, but they were still slowed. The 2022 floors were not illegal, but they were still changed for 2023. All of the front wings pass the current test, but the wing test is being changed for Spain. The goal is disruption.

Zak Brown of Mclaren said it best:

“The goal is to make ourselves as fast as possible, but there’s also a strategy of destabilising the competition. We try to create tension or disrupt other teams, which isn’t unique to F1 but is particularly pronounced here.

“You’re constantly fighting for employees, drivers, sponsors, and media attention plays a big role. If you can generate some instability in rival teams – and it doesn’t always work in our favor – it can slow them down while we focus on speeding up.”

I find it cringeworthy and disrespectful when team principals try to stop a competitor by alleging of cheating. It often doesn’t work though. Merc still got dominated by Ferrari even after that TD went into effect in 22. For me it’s not worth it. Just fix your own damn car ffs.

What Horner and rbr are doing now to McLaren is so embarrassing and it likely won’t work either.