2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Emag]

You're just glossing over part of their history in reality. Conveniently.

Now I'm sure nobody would be willing to deny their substantial history of championship over the years ? On a time and "historic" basis, which is of the same judgment.

The continued and tiresome "defence" by defaming other teams (by contributions to this thread) just smacks of juvenile insecurity. Maybe having the confidence to celebrate success without caveat would be a more edifying stance, one in accordance with Stella's outlook.

I felt it was a very good weekend for this team in Miami, one that helps underpin an undisputed championship win if it continues. All the better for having a challenge of such measure to overcome.

Ah, you're right, I must’ve forgotten the part where Mercedes is still held accountable every time they show up to a race because of the Le Mans disaster in the 1950s. After all, if we’re applying historic judgment as you suggest, surely that should be dragged into modern debates too, right?

Look, no one’s glossing over history. Spy Gate happened, it was investigated, punished, and the sport moved on. Pretending it gives anyone moral high ground to throw guilt around decades later, especially when the team today shares none of the same leadership or ownership, isn’t thoughtful reflection. It’s lazy point-scoring dressed up as principle.

[BMMR61]

I think Farnborough put it perfectly. Leave all the hysteria to others. It sometimes seems that the greater McLaren's success over a weekend the more arguments appear on this forum.

[mwillems]

I really think this is being blown out of proportion—there was no hysteria.

Sometimes people just enjoy a bit of back-and-forth. A long or passionate post doesn’t automatically mean someone’s losing their mind. If it did, half the forum would've been committed years ago!

[CjC]

I think Farnborough put it perfectly. Leave all the hysteria to others. It sometimes seems that the greater McLaren's success over a weekend the more arguments appear on this forum.

The success/ agreements go hand in hand I’m afraid- it’s just never effected the Mclaren thread
The Merc thread was a toxic place for a very long time.
‘Back in my day’ ( ) I used to come here to learn what and where are the new car updates, who’s joining the team personnel or sponsor wise etc now Mclaren have reacted the summit all I can hear is the tinging of stones of the glass house.

[Mostlyeels]

It sometimes seems that the greater McLaren's success over a weekend the more arguments appear on this forum.

Always . I think of it as a mark of success: if McLaren's doing well, fans of other teams throw shade, say the drivers are poor, the car is illegal, and how if their team had the car they'd be leading by 1000 points by this stage. Comes with the territory of being successful.

[AR3-GP]

For Emag:

A clever air circulation. Stella also denies that her exceptionally good tire management in the race has nothing to do with the problems that sometimes make it difficult for drivers to set the perfect lap in qualifying. "We don't pay a price per lap for caring for the tires better than others. It's no problem for us to get the tires into their working window quickly."

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... peraturen/

Mclaren has no problems getting their tires up to temperature for qualifying. Straight from the horse's mouth. As I said before, the tire behaviour is like a heating furnace with a thermostat switch. They bring the tires up to temperature quickly and then hold them there. The RB19 and the SF24 never achieved this. They were always compromised in qualifying with cold tires. The Mclaren doesn't have any compromise in this area.

I pointed this out from a non technical position, that the car was lightning from wet or damp starts, safety car or otherwise and was potentially indicative of tyre heating abilities.

We are also having tremendous grip from the start line. I'm not sure how much this is related after a long wait, but it would likely help.

Strange I didn't get notified of this reply. But yeah, I agree. This is the most complete tire management solution that I've seen in this ground effect era.

[trinidefender]

You're just glossing over part of their history in reality. Conveniently.

Now I'm sure nobody would be willing to deny their substantial history of championship over the years ? On a time and "historic" basis, which is of the same judgment.

The continued and tiresome "defence" by defaming other teams (by contributions to this thread) just smacks of juvenile insecurity. Maybe having the confidence to celebrate success without caveat would be a more edifying stance, one in accordance with Stella's outlook.

I felt it was a very good weekend for this team in Miami, one that helps underpin an undisputed championship win if it continues. All the better for having a challenge of such measure to overcome.

Ah, you're right, I must’ve forgotten the part where Mercedes is still held accountable every time they show up to a race because of the Le Mans disaster in the 1950s. After all, if we’re applying historic judgment as you suggest, surely that should be dragged into modern debates too, right?

Look, no one’s glossing over history. Spy Gate happened, it was investigated, punished, and the sport moved on. Pretending it gives anyone moral high ground to throw guilt around decades later, especially when the team today shares none of the same leadership or ownership, isn’t thoughtful reflection. It’s lazy point-scoring dressed up as principle.

Not to get involved into this spat that's seems to be in clearly the wrong thread, spy gate involved egos between Ron Dennis and Max Mosely who supposedly hated each other. To say that any particular of that entire debacle can be judged as fair clearly wasn't following the sport at the time.

As soon as the information became known in McLaren it was self reported to the FIA. Furthermore none of said intellectual property was either found to have been on or accused to have been on McLarens cars at any point. It was then that Max Mosely and Ron Dennis had their ego spat

[Watto]

These are very different things. You can see the wings and make a spirited argument. You have no idea what to complain about with the ducts. The FIA may or may not ban them next year but I doubt that decision was ever going to have any relationship to what we were doing, unless it really was illegal. They'll make that decision based on whether it improves the show or not, and not anything to do with RBs noise.

It doesn't matter if it's an issue of legality or not as that's not always why regulations are "adjusted". I don't feel that Mclaren is doing anything illegal (but I have no credibility). The FIA also don't feel that there is anything illegal but that has nothing to do with the potential consequences of making the FIA "wiser" about how it all really works.

Red Bull have handed over a treasure map with an "x" that marks the spot. Those thermal imaging photos that Red Bull turned in will have been talked about at other teams. You can already see the effect that it's had on the discussion in this forum and how it's helping to unravel what makes the MCL-39 different.

I suspect Mclaren would be happier if the FIA and rivals were still clueless but the thermal imaging photos tell quite the story. The FIA may seek to "improve the show" at a later time, but they have to know "how" in order to do so. Red Bull's efforts were not wasted imo. All of the non-Mclaren teams have benefitted from this fishing expedition in one way or another. Now they know the areas to focus on. It's also possible that consequences of the FIA's new understanding may be seen at a later point in time.

I get that some are caught up in the "aha!, the FIA sticks it to Horner!", but I feel that is a very short-sighted viewpoint. This inquisition has very complex consequences.

I think you're blowing this out of proportion a bit. Let's wait and see how things develop. I really doubt anything will happen this year — mainly because there's no clear basis for a complaint, unlike past cases where at least there was something debatable. As Stella said, this falls into the category of the “dark arts” — you can’t easily see it or define it.

If something changes for next year, as I’ve said before, I suspect it would be more about balancing the spectacle than enforcing any real breach. But if it does get banned mid-season, feel free to quote this and hit me with a big “I told you so.”

As for whether this helped other teams: maybe the thermal imaging helped shine a light on it, but I doubt Red Bull are the only team to have looked into it — just the only one making noise publicly. There is a strong reason to suspect that someone else (Maybe Mercedes given their positioning) had already figured it out and started panicking about falling behind as I doubt think they'd be telling the world how to do this for free and helping their other competitors get a leg up and possibly get ahead of Red Bull.

This is F1 — everyone studies everyone else’s cars. That’s nothing new. Teams will use any tech they can to analyse competitors.

Point stand that reporting it to the FIA didn't enable anyone or anything. It wasn’t some noble crusade for fairness and transparency — it was exactly the kind of desperate move it looked like.

I didn't see it as desperate I think you put into context the video from B Sports (and yes it is a guess only I know) on how McLaren maybe keeping their tyres cool in an area he has some knowledge in he tends to agree with Red Bull that the cooling is very unlikely to be purely air cooling .

The thermal cameras I though gave a clearer picture of what if going on even if the finer details aren't there I think it probably offered other teams a much clearer picture of where things lay its not say obviously the water in tyres if it wasn't obvious this thermal comes show it. Not is it say suspension related - from a non technical person I'd think it can have a big effect on tyre temps if something is wrong but I doubt the brake drums.

I don't see it as all that much different to back a few years with Toto and Christian from both sides and I think even now Brown has had the odd low blow - iirc after the The Jos/Horner bust up last tear I seem to recall he had a little jab at RBR/Horner there on a kinda personal level over their treatment of Jos I though was pretty low. Personally I with they would all stay out of that stuff I find it a bit boring but accept it is F1 - I like Vassur because he seems to largely stay out of those shenanigans.

I tend to think to some of Toto's comments were more an attack of who he sees as Mercedes rival this year RBR.

I am sure other teams are trying to figure it out too I think perhaps Red Bulls advantage here is they are working off background work Rob Marshall (if rumours are true) had been doing for them. That he was being the idea of water in tyres while at RBR - I think before it became specifically banned - and I would take a guess and the use of thermal comes on brake drums was probably connected to some of his work, knowing where to look is sometimes half the problem - and it feels like the brake drum is probably the clearest picture yet of where that is- B Sports too probably only put his video out as a response to that. If they were the same temp as all the other teams then the secret lays somewhere else. McLaren have done a fantastic job with their car.

[mwillems]

Not to get involved into this spat that's seems to be in clearly the wrong thread, spy gate involved egos between Ron Dennis and Max Mosely who supposedly hated each other. To say that any particular of that entire debacle can be judged as fair clearly wasn't following the sport at the time.

As soon as the information became known in McLaren it was self reported to the FIA. Furthermore none of said intellectual property was either found to have been on or accused to have been on McLarens cars at any point. It was then that Max Mosely and Ron Dennis had their ego spat

Indeed, Mosley told Dennis that 1m was for breaking the rules, the other 99m for being a c nut.

Ultimately Mclaren only had to pay less than a third of that money though.

[Darth-Piekus]

As trinidedender mentioned Mclaren has done nothing wrong regarding the Spy Gate as a team but unfortunately paid the vendetta of Ron Dennis and in my personal view a disgusting FIA president who wanted to give a final gift to Ferrari (as leader of the Ferrari International Assistance) before retiring with the added bonus stealing the drivers championship from Lewis Hamilton that year and denying him the first rookie champion in history and then not punishing Renault for their own Spygate. That is one of the reasons I admire Hamilton for what he did in the following years and that is wiping Ferrari's achievements off the map and breaking down a system.

But thats all in the past and today's Mclaren is a different team that builds the Papaya Legacy.

[Henri]

It shows rob and newey where the main guys behide the rb19. Since they left redbull are not as dominant.. neil houdley and peter and rob seem to be the dream team

[FittingMechanics]

There was no tire cooling magic trick last year and the team won WCC.

[avantman]

There was no tire cooling magic trick last year and the team won WCC.

Exactly! I mean, we think last year they didn't have those fancy brake ducts everyone is talking about now.
But at the same time we know they had far superior tire deg since introduction of their new 2024 car in Miami last year. Not literally always, but more often than not. Just like this year, where they weren't that much better on their tires than Red bull, even more so Ferrari for example in Jeddah.
And that Miami package included new brake ducts, both at front and rear. But then the purpose of upgraded ducts was described [at least officially] as improving air flow, to work together with other upgraded aero parts and surfaces - to get more downforce ultimately. Were those brake ducts doing the magic?
It's strange to see really people now suddenly started talking about Mclaren ability to protect, especially softer more fragile tires from overheating, whereas we saw their total dominance on drying out track in Canada, almost a year ago, where Lando especially was driving a second or more a lap faster than Russell and Verstappen, which wasn't any different to what we saw in Australia this year. And on both occasions the weather was actually cool, rather than hot.


It was actually much more than a second per lap. Two in the end of the stint just before the pit stop. Do we now all pretend that never happened?

[mwillems]

Tyre degradation was already strong last year and the year before (The first big step), but they’ve clearly taken another step forward. They've also improved tyre performance in cold and wet conditions — particularly in terms of tyre heating, which was an area that went backwards last year.

It’s easy to forget, but we did have some dominant races last season where we finished well ahead of the field, so this isn’t entirely new. We’ve shown flashes of that kind of pace at a few races this year, and in Miami we completely outperformed anything we’d done so far. That said, based on how the year’s gone overall, I don’t expect that level to become the norm — but with the Miami upgrade, I’d like to think we’ll see it more often than we did last season.

I still believe we’ll have one of, if not the, fastest car on a Sunday - usually faster - upgrades not withstanding. Saturdays, however, will likely remain a challenge — at least in the short term.

[FittingMechanics]

I've watched Palmers analysis of the race incidents, and I just realized about that incident where Lando overtook off the track. Lando was ahead or alongside at the apex, on the inside. This gives him full authority over the exit of the corner. But with the speed he had, he slid wide and off track.
What he could have done is continue to brake after the apex, to keep the car on track. If he managed to do that the overtake is legal.

Problem with that is that it is very likely Verstappen would have just steamed ahead offtrack and then Norris would again be behind Max. This is not a big problem because he let him through himself a bit later on. So it would either mean Verstappen gets a penalty or Verstappen accepts that Norris overtook him legally.

Obviously, all of this is super hard to judge and calculate in realtime but it does show an interesting aspect of overtaking on the inside. If you manage to get to the apex first, you can keep braking after the apex and just crowd the other car off the road.