Schuey to McLaren?!

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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I didn't known James Hunt either but there is a lot that can be observed from diver’s attitude on track, his statements and deeds. If it isn’t possible than no one could say for example that Hunt and Piquet were the greatest playboys in F1, that Berger was a joker or that Senna was extremely concentrated?
Knowing someone in person won’t tell you much if this person is withdrawn or hypocrite while TV statements and behavior of sincere and open person followed trough decade or more certainly can.

When James Hunt did what he did contemporary cars were also “the safest it has ever been”, I’m certain than in 10 or 20 tears people will find 2005 cars very dangerous just as we now find cars from late ‘70s…

What I’m trying to say is that only a chance for scoring additional 10 points doesn’t’ justify passing near your brothers wracked car or missing to be with your father the day your mother died. Being psychosocially able to race F1 with such burden seams impossible, unless it really isn’t that much of a burden to some people. If he wasn’t in good relations with his mother I’d understand his and Ralf’s decision to race on that day, but since that wasn’t the case I don’t know how could they (as persons) afford something like that.

MS didn't go to Senna's funeral, which is a historical fact, not my opinion and it has nothing to do with being religious or not. I'm atheist but I have gone to funerals of people of various religions/confessions and even been asked to help in ceremony (carried cross). No priest ever asked me if I belong to same religious group or am I religious or not. Attending a funeral isn’t an expression of religious beliefs but expression of respect to deceased. I fell stupid saying this here… MS was expected to show up on Senna’s funeral not as MS - the common person but as MS as leader of the F1 championship, as Senna’s greatest rival at that moment and as a public figure.

BTW, I hate the funerals and avoid them too, especially since my parents are no longer making funeral attending decisions for me, but I’m not an F1 driver battling for championship, traveling thousands of miles every month showing up my nose all over the globe racing and promoting sponsors so that an additional trip would be out of the question. I’m certain that among other drivers who attended the funeral were also those non-religious but as I’ve already said, it was an act of decency expected from them.

I accept that some people agree with me regarding MS and that some don't, but even if that was 50-50 situation there is obviously something very compromising about MS since such discussions about his personality, moral and behavior on track last as long as his racing career. I might be not informed properly, but I haven’t heard a bit similar said about any other diver in history even though all of them just like the rest of us had vices, ups and downs.

Where there’s smoke…
Last edited by manchild on 03 Sep 2005, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

Guest
Guest
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I can understand if you do not like Schumachers driving on track but since you do not know anything about Schumachers obligations and the circumstances regarding himself and the people around him you are just ranting about things you know nothing about!.

/ Fx

Hudsonhawk
Hudsonhawk
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You should take some of your own advise ? What do you know of this man ? Barri will tell you plenty about this guy...

http://www.motorsport-network.com/index ... oke_id=450

Diagnosis - Le revolution is contagious !!!! \:D/

Edited by Tomba

Guest
Guest
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Ah yes Barichello doesnt think they are close friends. I fail to see why
this makes Schumacher a villain ?

/ Fx

wowf1
wowf1
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Joined: 05 Jan 2004, 13:53
Location: Brunel University, England

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I think comparing driver's ontrack performance is fair enough, as they are all racing drivers and have that in common. Offtrack, the driver's are human beings, who are by definition all different.

There is no point comparing MS's personality with James Hunt's or whoever's. They are different people with different beliefs, opinions and principles, just like any other 2 human beings.

I also don't agree that James Hunt's and MS's actions can be compared. They are from wildly different eras. James Hunt's actions were dictated by him, he did what he wants. MS's actions are dictated by what people think he should do, what his sponsors want, what ferrari want, what his fans want....

In my opinion, he's the greatest driver ever to grace the sport. I remember saying to myself at the end of last year, 7 World Champioships, 7! 7! Just say it to yourself. It's a lot, and you don't win that many by being mediocre.

rob

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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MS's actions are dictated by what people think he should do, what his sponsors want, what ferrari want, what his fans want....
So, you’re saying that he wasn’t a free man? Why didn’t he complain, I mean someone forcing you to such shameful acts and you don’t complain for a decade?! Why don’t you call up their names than? If you like the man so much why are you including his other fans allowing them to abuse him? Why did he prolonged his contract with such abusing sponsors and team? What kind of person would do such things just because sponsors paid him?

Sponsors forced him to such things? Did you ever read what newspapers owned by FIAT/Ferrari owners – the Agnelli family said about his move on Jacques in 1997?
La Stampa wrote: Schumacher's image as a champion was shattered, like a glass hit by a stone
Or should we now blame fans? Which fans precisely? His German fans or Ferrari fans? Should we blame Ferrari fans who were disgusted with his moves? Should we blame Lauda who also criticized him even though he worked as special advisor for Ferrari at the time?

I agree that Schumacher did what Montezemolo, Todt and Brown wanted but he wasn’t forced - he indeed was (is) the 4th rider of apocalypse.
In my opinion, he's the greatest driver ever to grace the sport. I remember saying to myself at the end of last year, 7 World Champioships, 7! 7! Just say it to yourself. It's a lot, and you don't win that many by being mediocre
I’m not a stock broker or mathematician impressed by figures and statistics.
To me he is the worst pest the F1 witnessed.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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More comments by Italian press on Schumacher's shameful move on Jacques Villeneuve in 1997.
La Repubblica wrote:To see a world title vanish after waiting 18 years is sad enough. But to see it go up in smoke by that 'prank' from Michael Schumacher is...unfortunately much worse. It's shameful
Gazzetta dello Sport wrote:For Ferrari, after 18 years, it would have been a title to hide… Villeneuve...son of the adored Gilles, emerges in a magnificent light as a man who knows how to fight and as a champion who knows how to win

Guest
Guest
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As I said earlier, Schumachers track antics you have an opinion of and rightfully should have one but voicing your opinion of Schumachers personality and off track behavior is just sad. You have already made up your mind that Schumacher is evil and that he is a bad person without even having met him, that is simply sad and a very childish behavior too.

In my mind Schumacher is one of the greatest drivers all time but whether he is good or bad as a person I reserve the right to make up my mind until I actually know him well enough to make up my mind.

/ Fx

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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manchild wrote:... gentleman driver – sort of modern knight what F1 driver was and still is expected to be.
I'm absolutely certain that driver in compliance with mentioned in quote above can only be a good person and Schumacher doesn’t have any similar characteristics to ones mentioned in my quote.

Guest
Guest
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Your perception of somebodys behavior on a race track does in no way relate to their off track personalty.

What better gentlemandriver than Schumacher ? Schumacher drives hard but fair and makes only a few misstakes. Does alot of charity and promotional work for various organisations including the FIA. What more can you ask of a modern knight ?

/ Fx

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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Anonymous wrote:Your perception of somebodys behavior on a race track does in no way relate to their off track personalty.
So you’re saying than someone can be bustard on a race track and "Mother Teresa" when he is not racing? Why would any driver’s personality be separated without common recognizable characteristics?
Anonymous wrote:What better gentleman driver than Schumacher ? Schumacher drives hard but fair and makes only a few mistakes. Does alot of charity and promotional work for various organisations including the FIA. What more can you ask of a modern knight ? .
:?: :?: :?:

Hard for sure but fair?! He invented dishonesty in driving! If it wasn’t for modern CF chassis he’d be already dead several times due to his own “fair” driving. Name me one other F1 champion (or any F1 driver) who was disqualified from whole season?

Can you imagine what amount of dishonesty must a driver (two times champion) show in order to be punished that hard? What followed at the end of 1997 season was only the 3rd attempt of MS to get rid of the opponent and win the title (2 previous attempts were successful 1994, 1995).

All drivers do charity, Angelina Jolie does charity but that is not knighthood I'm talking about (even though she’s much more of a knight than MS will ever be).

Knighthood considers sacrificing, giving away from your self and rising above the situation and general procedures, expectations… like saying – “hell I got 5 titles, f**k sponsors and 10 points I’ll pull over to check on my brother”… or thinking like – “I could crash in Jacque's car and win but he is just a person like me and that could endanger his life…”

But Schumacher can’t even think that way…

jaslfc
jaslfc
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Joined: 19 Nov 2004, 13:47

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manchild,
name me one driver on the grid today who is a gentelman driver!! ur talkin about a time where there was not much pressure from sponsors and teams.. nowdays the commercial aspect of f1 rules all

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

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There are many gentlemen drivers today (most of them are but not all), some of them yet to shine or fail. The main thing I don’t like is that simplified excuse “pressure from sponsors and teams.. nowdays the commercial aspect of f1 rules all” - used to define kind of attitude that Schumacher somehow tried to “legalize” from the mid ‘90s to now on. Fortunately it won’t work even though he has done several such moves this season with (Indy and post-Indy events).

No one is forced to drive in F1 or to do anything sponsors would insist on. Honest person will say NO. Greedy person will say YES. Moral vs. Money – an old story.

However, I don’t see any good or logic from sponsor asking a driver to commit something disgraceful or illegal. Was what followed 1997 good thing for Marlboro?

I really think I made my point regarding Schumacher and what I wanted to say can be read. Repeating my self or using different words to describe same thing seams pointless and boring for others.

Hudsonhawk
Hudsonhawk
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Why didn't Montoya back the whole field up in Monza ? He could have consistently run 1.5 seconds a lap slower in the whole race and Alonzo could have done a thing about it?!?! Alonzo would have never attempted to risk a pass on Montoya and even if he did manage to get past, Montoya would have come back at him. This would have allowed Kimi victory.....even with his extra stop ?

Perhaps it was because it was a fairer team who had the better interests of the sport at hand and they didn't make their tactic so blatantly obvious.

What would Ferrari & Schumacher have done if faced with this scenario ?

RH1300S
RH1300S
1
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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jaslfc wrote:manchild,
name me one driver on the grid today who is a gentelman driver!! ur talkin about a time where there was not much pressure from sponsors and teams.. nowdays the commercial aspect of f1 rules all
My opinion, formed from observation and assumption..........

David Coulthard
Jarno Trulli
Nick Heidfeld
Giancarlo Fisichella
Rubens Barrichello

To name a few