WEC 2025

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
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AR3-GP
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Re: WEC 2025

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dialtone wrote:
10 May 2025, 05:22
AR3-GP wrote:
10 May 2025, 04:49
dialtone wrote:
10 May 2025, 04:36
Let me drop this one further:
Toyota's best Free Practice lap time (2:01.259 during FP3) was faster than its best Qualifying lap time (2:01.908).
Porsche's best Free Practice lap time (2:01.475 during FP2) was faster than its best Qualifying lap time (2:01.512).
Track temperature. Porsche completed their qualifying simulation during FP2 and only ran used tires during FP3.
Everyone improved but those 2 teams, and yet it's BoP's fault. LMAO
Here is the actual fastest laps set (and session upon which it was set) as of the end of qualifying 1, in a table. There are 3 manufacturers with times that are no faster than a free practice session where the track condition was better. Many factors can influence a fast laptime being set during free practice including tire age, traffic, fuel load, red flags for accidents, cars which crashed (both Ferraris, Alpines), and different run plans for each team.

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Last edited by AR3-GP on 10 May 2025, 05:37, edited 6 times in total.
It doesn't turn.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: WEC 2025

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AR3-GP wrote:
10 May 2025, 05:28
dialtone wrote:
10 May 2025, 05:22
AR3-GP wrote:
10 May 2025, 04:49


Track temperature. Porsche completed their qualifying simulation during FP2 and only ran used tires during FP3.
Everyone improved but those 2 teams, and yet it's BoP's fault. LMAO
Here is the actual fastest laps set (and session upon which it was set) as of the end of qualifying 1, in a table, rather than what you have imagined in your head.

https://i.postimg.cc/HW3MkGT3/image.png
That's uhhhh exactly what I said? Everyone has the best time in quali except Porsche, Toyota and Cadillac.

And that's a comparison with Quali, because cars further improved in hyperpole, not sure why that's not considered but obviously Ferrari improved further in hyperpole as did Cadillac for example, so we are back to everyone improved except Porsche and Toyota.

But sure, it's track temperature that makes you lose 1.5s and 1.9s from Ferrari.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: WEC 2025

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Pretty clearly the race is showing the bop is fine.

Fakepivot
Fakepivot
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Re: WEC 2025

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not sure if it ever happens but i would love to see mick drive 499p..

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: WEC 2025

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Beautiful race, help toyota, cadillac and porsche a smidge and the bop is perfect.

Sevach
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Re: WEC 2025

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Toyota will look more Toyota at Le Mans.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: WEC 2025

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LeMans BoP leaked.

Considering how close the fight was last year between Ferrari and Toyota, now they gave Toyota a small boost under 250, while maintaining better stint energy.

Don’t care how many interviews Kobayashi gives, this isn’t unfavorable BoP for them.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: WEC 2025

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The problem is still the LMDh platform vs LMH. For those who look forward to another Ferrari and Toyota battle at Le Mans, and the LMDh to scrap for best of the rest, congrats.

dialtone
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Re: WEC 2025

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Tvetovnato wrote:The problem is still the LMDh platform vs LMH. For those who look forward to another Ferrari and Toyota battle at Le Mans, and the LMDh to scrap for best of the rest, congrats.
What team’s BoP is a problem for you?

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AR3-GP
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Re: WEC 2025

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dialtone wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 18:06
Tvetovnato wrote:The problem is still the LMDh platform vs LMH. For those who look forward to another Ferrari and Toyota battle at Le Mans, and the LMDh to scrap for best of the rest, congrats.
What team’s BoP is a problem for you?
The Ferrari and the Toyota are the BOP with the problem. They are running the same weight and same power as the LMDh cars, while operating a much superior platform with the AWD, the superior handling dynamics and tire degradation of the AWD, the smaller fuel tanks (less weight). There's no platform equivalence in these numbers. Furthermore, both Ferrari and Toyota now have better power to weight figures than Porsche and BMW, two LMDh cars. Insane.

Look at the BOP of the Ferrari vs the Peugeot

Ferrari: 1042 kg, 517kw, 500kw, 905 MJ
Peugeot: 1039kg, 509kw, 500kw, 898 MJ

How will the Peugeot (a much weaker car) be able to compete with the Ferrari with worse BOP numbers? Same weight, less 1st stage power, and less energy per stint for Peugeot. Do you believe the Peugeot and the Ferrari are balanced together? Peugeot will be over 1 second slower than Ferrari, minimum.

It's not a good BOP this year. There's no balance of the LMH cars with the LMDh cars. Ferrari and Toyota will be in another formula.


Pecking order:

Ferrari
Toyota
---
Alpine
Cadillac
Porsche/BMW
Peugeot
Aston Martin
Last edited by AR3-GP on 04 Jun 2025, 01:12, edited 1 time in total.
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AR3-GP
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Re: WEC 2025

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Why have Ferrari and Toyota jumped Peugeot, Porsche, and BMW in power-to-weight after being faster than all of them in all previous races at Le Mans with worse P-to-W values :wtf:
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dialtone
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Re: WEC 2025

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You just look at power to weight but most of the lap in LeMans is at full throttle, 85% in fact. Aero is more important and power gain with it, as well as stint energy as you will not be able to push the car hard when stint energy doesn’t allow you to. Of course if you have a full tank to do half a stint you’ll be able to push, but this is a 24 hour race not 6.

I’m honestly not so sure it will be so dominant for Ferrari and Toyota, Peugeot I agree with you though but they are LMH.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Re: WEC 2025

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What AR3 said above. I was hoping they would rectify things for Le Mans but clearly they didn’t for some obscure reason.

The major problem with the BoP is that they now base it on pace in races. That is a direct invitation for massive game playing, as Ferrari clearly did end of 2024 and Toyota has been doing up until Le Mans the past two years. They need to find a way to make proper simulations, or take all cars to a test day and run them with hired drivers to see what each car is really capable of. And in the meantime work towards a single platform in hypercar, as balancing them when they have such different traits will always be hard or unfair.

dialtone
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WEC 2025

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LeMans is a different BoP based only on the past LeMans races, specifically to avoid gamesmanship, and involves lots of simulations.

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AR3-GP
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Re: WEC 2025

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dialtone wrote:
03 Jun 2025, 23:58
You just look at power to weight but most of the lap in LeMans is at full throttle, 85% in fact. Aero is more important and power gain with it, as well as stint energy as you will not be able to push the car hard when stint energy doesn’t allow you to. Of course if you have a full tank to do half a stint you’ll be able to push, but this is a 24 hour race not 6.

I’m honestly not so sure it will be so dominant for Ferrari and Toyota, Peugeot I agree with you though but they are LMH.
You're missing the point of that figure. At no point in time were Porsche, BMW, or Peugeot faster than Toyota and Ferrari in any previous race at Le Mans. I can post the direct power and weight figures and show you that Toyota and Ferrari gained more compared to last year, but the power-to-weight is a proxy value for the same fact. It shows you the same trend, that Toyota and Ferrari were lifted compared to Porsche, Peugeot, and BMW. All of those manufacturers were already slower last year #-o . They have gone in the wrong direction with the BOP.


The basis for the Le Mans BOP should have been the BOP at Spa, with penalties for Ferrari, and breaks for Porsche and Toyota. The characteristics of Spa are the same as Le Mans.

They are not even using the previous Le Mans for the BOP.
The BoP in force at the Le Mans 24 Hours is not supposed to be the result of the same complex calculations as those used in other World Endurance Championship rounds. In fact, it is supposed to be based solely on the cars' homologation parameters, ie their intrinsic characteristics.

In other words, it does not depend on the performance recorded at Le Mans in 2024, nor on that of the first races of the season.
https://www.the-race.com/wec-le-mans/20 ... published/


The clue that the system didn't work this year is just looking at the values of Ferrari and Peugeot. It's a barometer for the quality of the rest of the BOP table.
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