Schuey to McLaren?!

wowf1 · Post 07 Sep 2005, 17:42

Good point RH100S, there are probably a few others too.

I don't mean to preach manchild but why do you care so much? Obviously everyone has their own opinons, and heck i don't actually like Michael Schumacher myself (from what i have seen on TV and press, I don't KNOW him) but i can respect him for his achievements and his wise head without being bitter about it.

I understand you feel that some of his actions are 'un-gentlemanly', but nobody can found a successful F1 career on false premise, you have to be a good racing driver at the end of the day.

manchild · Post 07 Sep 2005, 19:29

Monza 2005 - new livery old bodywork…

jaslfc · Post 08 Sep 2005, 03:01

anyway .. we can go on and debate about shumy but what we can not deny that shumy is the most succesful driver. Yes he has not been a 'nice' driver but he is a legend. I am not here to change some of you guys opinion on ferrari and shumy and i dont think you can change some of our opinions either. I have one more thing to add. 1 of the strengths of shumy is his mental strengh. he is able to consistently put in fast laps throughout the entire race. We can see similar characteristics in Kimi and alonso.

DaveKillens · Post 08 Sep 2005, 04:58

Actually, Alonso could have turned into Kimi at one stage of the Monza race, and probably DNF'd himself and Kimi. Instead, Alonso allowed Kimi past, a clean move. If he had turned into Kimi,, he woud have definitely moved himself closer to the title. Bad luck on Kimi's part (a spin and a bad rear tire) helped Alonso later on, but at a certain time at Monza, he had an oportunity to do something many think Shu would have considered if he had been in such a situation.
I think Alonso is an ethical racer.

manchild · Post 08 Sep 2005, 05:48

Comparing uncorrupted young drivers with Schumacher are just latest attempts to clear off his name with “the blood of the innocent” - it can be hard this whole season on various medias.

As Dave said it, both of them had several opportunities in previous several races to turn the result in their favor if they only acted as Schumacher did in 1994, 1995 and 1997, but they didn’t.

I see no similarities with him in Alonso or Kimi including any other driver and it doesn’t surprise me because he always acted as “Übermensch” – he always treated the rest of the drivers with undeniably resemblance on person who believes that his own importance and value exceeds everyone else’s.

His German background only served the purpose of linking his on track professional behavior with Nietzsche's idea of “Übermensch” that was later adopted by Hitler. When you add to that identical approach of Ferrari bosses towards rest of the teams than it really looks like a “Nazi show” as someone previously said, especially when Max Mosley takes part in this game…

Why else would that fan of his from the picture above painted German WWII helmet in red and put Ferrari logo on it? If his fans have found this metaphorical connection why should anyone be surprised when people who dislike him find it?

........
“Übermensch” – “Supermen” or “Overman”… “The greatest driver”, “Best ever”... what is the point of that? The end of F1? If he is the greatest as no one before him was than the show is over – F1 can stop existing? I don’t get this obvious need of some people to “cement” the situation and declare final victory…

Should the people who don’t agree with that play the role of the inferior race?

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer reminds a lot on what we had get from FIA - Ein Team, Ein Driver... Ein set of Tyres

Guest · Post 08 Sep 2005, 06:11

im not talkin about what they would do. i am talking about the ability to consistently maintain a very fast pace for the entire race. .. manchild if u dont like shumy.. too bad.. he is still goin to be a 7 times world champ no matter what u say!!! i am sick of ur rubbish.. im sorry if i offended u but u made ur point clear and i respect that but no point going on and on.

jaslfc · Post 08 Sep 2005, 06:13

that was me btw

manchild · Post 08 Sep 2005, 12:21

I agree that there is no point continuing this but you did ask me at least once for additional comments so I tried to explain the essence of what I see as bed thing about Schumacher and Co. Are you the Guest sometimes signed by / Fx? I’m asking this because he did get into debate too or was that you… oh it rhymes we could sing now something from “Der Ring des Nibelungen”

just kidding

Don't think I have anything against you or anyone else posting here in Schumacher’s favor.

BTW, that photo of fan with Wehrmacht helmet I found on same web site for which West says is the official Schumacher’s web site:
http://sport.rtl.de/formel-1/michaelschumacher_home.php
http://bilder.rtl.de//p2/2005-09/1074867/1074146.jpg

We haven’t discussed symbolism of Wehrmacht helmet and how it can be related to Formula 1 or Ferrari but that seams obvious.

Fan got it, editor on RTL got it… I got it.

For those two it is certainly funny to use that notorious item as a metaphor for almighty “Weltmeister” (he was rarely called World Champion).

For me and I’m sure for most of the people in the world Wehrmacht helmet is symbol of evil, repainted or not, and when a German wears it painted in red with Ferrari logo in order to say Ferrari + helmet = Germany & “Schumacher the conqueror of the world” than it is just an additional confirmation of everything I’ve previously said in my posts, not to mention an additional insult for Ferrari (Enzo Ferrari).

That is my point for sure and obviously rubbish for one part of the public that likes Schumacher.

DaveKillens · Post 08 Sep 2005, 15:55

Dude, it's just a helmet, no more, no less. Maybe you should offer an explanation for the red beacon on the top too? A firefighter, a person dedicated to saving lives, part of a proud profession of people who have died in order to save others?
I do not hold Shu in the highest esteem, I don't consider him as the greatest. But hey, please don't drag something from a bad part of history into this.

Guest · Post 08 Sep 2005, 19:16

I mentioned that as an obvious metaphorical resemblance not invented by me “the Schuey hater” but by his fans.

A firefighter as metaphor?

Red beacon on the top of fans helmet is “red”

while Feuerwehr (German firefighters) uses only blue beams.http://www.feuerwehr-egelsbach.de/download/gifs/dl3.jpg

German firefighters actually do use such pre and WWII helmets but only white ones
http://www.german-helmets.com/QUICK%20I ... ELMETS.htm http://images.google.com/images?svnum=1 ... lm&spell=1

So, where is the connection between red helmet and red beam of Schuey’s fan and white helmet (without blue beam)?

What about something like letherhosen, Alps hat or something more appropriate?

It is not me dragging “bad part of history into this” I’m the one who spoke against that when I expressed my disgust with how that Schumacher emphasized obvious German background and support for Schuey.

Principessa · Post 08 Sep 2005, 19:16

Boys boys, be nice for each other.

Ok if you don't like Schumi, I can understand...but indeed, don't drag a bad part of history into this.

Let's keep it nice. If you have something to say about Schumi, go ahead, but be nice!

manchild · Post 08 Sep 2005, 19:17

That was me

Principessa · Post 08 Sep 2005, 19:20

I know I know.... I don't like Schumi either, but be nice for his fans!

I'm not his fan, but you have to be honest and say that he has accomplished a lot in his F1 career.

manchild · Post 08 Sep 2005, 19:44

I have nothing against his fans but they must also understand that there are fans of other people who get insulted when his fans praise him.

Damon’s fans, Jacques’s fans… fans of the drivers who suffered consequences of Schumacher’s driving without ever causing something similar to him.

His moves on these drivers in 2 of 3 mentioned cases brought him 2 titles of World Champion and when someone defends his greatness by mentioning 7 titles than it makes some people go mad. That is the why I’m replying and not letting “praises” pass just like that.

So… when the talk on the forum starts heading towards Schuey’s greatness me and others can’t remain silent on that.

The “analysis” of symbolism I wrote about was just “analysis” – a comment on something done by his fan and supported by certain medias. The “bad part of history” was brought in by this fan of his and that website that published it.

The truth requires both sides to be heard so. However, some facts can be embarrassing but the one who presents them is not creating them only mentioning them as they already exist.

BTW, I admit that perhaps sometimes what I write sounds inappropriate or too harsh partly because English isn’t my first language. Sorry for that.

Principessa · Post 08 Sep 2005, 20:02

I know Schumi hasn't always won his titles by acting like a perfect gentlemen. And of course a lot of fans of other drivers are mad at him and his fans for acting the way they do.
But by making such a resemblance, you can hurt other people too.

And about the fans. I think it's normal that when you're a big fan of someone, you only see the good things and not the bad, so don't be to hard on them.

But no hard feelings Manchild, just wanted to make a point