2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Emag]

Max is such a great talent, honestly, and for me, I am a McLaren fan but recognize his greatness and so I criticize him when he goes "Mad Max" because he doesn't have to. He's good enough not to need to resort to those tactics. It's unnecessary and will be a "but he..." in his story in the record books.

It's what I have been saying since forever. It's not real racing and it's not something I will ever personally enjoy seeing from any driver. I don't even understand what's the point of even doing that. It never changes anything for him and if anything he has always just hurt himself when he goes "crazy".

He would have still won the WDC in 2021 if he didn't pull off those horrible moves in Jeddah and Brazil.
He would have still won the WDC in 2024 without the Hungary, Austin & Mexico crap.

And I am just not going to get into whatever has happened before his first WDC. This sort of behaviour has been there since the very beginning, but they were saying back then it was just his young age. Evidently, it wasn't age at all.

The only recent "real" battle between Max and a direct WDC rival of his that didn't feature "ugly" moves at any point, was him and Leclerc for those 2 races in 2022. And boy, it was beautiful. It's pretty obvious he doesn't need to resort to these lowly tactics. The problem is that he has absolutely no grace in defeat, unless he knows there are zero implications for the championship (late 2023 for example).

His legacy is more than safe though, it's just that in hindsight, there was never any need to put these "asterikses" in that legacy. In any case, he remains without a doubt one of the most talented and best drivers in the grid these last 10 years (arguably, the best in my opinion, but that's up to each personal view).

[Mostlyeels]

The strategy from McLaren was great today, and I hope to see more of this type of steady awareness.

Their steady reaction to this makes me think they red team/blue teamed this.

Double stacking on the safety car, with everything else, shows a steady hand and some rehearsal of this situation.

As a fan, it always feels like a few seconds gap is not enough, and tension is high. But, to the team, this is a good margin I'd guess.

[mwillems]

I don't mind his hard racing, or he brilliant way of using the rules as another weapon.

But his behaviour today, earlier in his career, vs Hamilton and at times vs Lando, such as Austria when his intent was "pass me and ill f*ck you up" are a not going to be forgotten. He'll forever be remembered for the ugly and the beautiful.

[PikeStance]

Another PU failure for Mercedes (or at least it looked like one). What is happening?

Toto confirmed it was an engine failure I believe. But a 49 point lead in the WDC is a very good buffer. I think if Max finished 3rd it would be a concern. But not really now.

Toto said on F1tv interview that was an oil problem and they need to investigate. So was not heat related.

And I keep my opinion that RB strategy was today the best, at least for them to put a constant and sensitive pressure on the two McLarens. Without the SC we might have a different outcome, Maybe for Oscar no problems but for Lando for sure a big headache.

I don't think so. Both McLaren had a faster pace and it was only the lap cars making things seem closer than they were. The only real difference is that Max most likely would have finished in 3rd and Hulk won't get a very complimentary classification.

BTW, anyone caught that they listed three drivers for the driver of day honors, and one of them was Kimi. 30 seconds later he is out of the race.

[AR3-GP]

It seems now that the flexi wing saga has subsided, McLaren's tyre temperature management is being framed as the next significant factor contributing to their main advantage. This could indeed be the case, and it probably is a contributing factor. However, I think it's not accurate to assume that rear tyre temperature management, specifically, is McLaren's biggest advantage over their competitors.

Why are you incensed by this discussion?

In my opinion, this entire aspect of their performance is not a "one-trick-pony." The design of the rear brake drums alone cannot be the sole reason for superior temperature management, particularly from an area so heavily constrained by technical regulations. I think there's more to it and you would need to design the whole rear end of the car with it in consideration.

The Mclaren is like an onion. It has many layers. We discuss some of them from time to time. Andrea Stella said the flex-wing was used to reduce drag.

“In our case, we want to shed a little bit of drag and a little bit of load, but as long as you do it within the regulations, and that’s the case, then it’s more of a technical point rather than a legality point, if that makes sense.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mclaren-f ... n-red-bull

Last year Mclaren had a mini-DRS system which was also used to reduce drag. It is not to say that the Mclaren is a one-trick pony in any area, but the car is in fact the sum of its many parts. A flexi-wing, a mini-drs there, a floor, a cooling system, and so on. Each time that something goes away, they lose something, no matter how small. If you lose too many parts, then it's no longer the car that it once was. Mclaren haven't reached that point yet.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, there's a tendency to entirely ignore McLaren's performance in Imola when discussing this topic.
You can't logically claim that McLaren's strong pace at Miami was primarily due to high track temperatures and then discard Imola as a relevant data point. McLaren was in a league of their own in Miami under those conditions. However, at Imola, where the race saw track temperatures ~ 3-4 degrees Celsius higher than in Miami, Max Verstappen was, at the very least, a match for them.

Imola was front limited. Miami was rear limited. Mclaren has a unique ability with rear axle temperature management. Stella credited it for Mclaren's performance in Spain.

Stella:

“Yes, I was a little surprised that we had such a clear advantage, as I’d expected Red Bull to be a little closer based on some of the similar circuit characteristics we found at those tracks.

"But in hindsight I think the very high temperatures associated with the rear axle - and that’s where our car performs very well. One characteristic of Spain is that the corners are very long - unlike Imola, where they are short. -Stella

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... -red-bull/

We have some insights to origin of the mechanism. It was revealed by Red Bull earlier in the year:

— According to Auto Motor und Sport, Red Bull remains unconvinced and has been monitoring McLaren’s brake ducts, claiming:

“Many blue areas around the brake vents on the McLaren tyres, while all the other cars showed a lot of orange and red.”

This is a direct observation of the phenomena which we are speculating about. There is no ruling against it. It is up to others to replicate. This specific detail doesn't come down to suspension, wings, or floors. The actual brake drums have cool spots. They are cooling the rear tires and doing it better than anyone else. The mechanism lies within.

The flexi-wing saga is not over yet IMO, we have to see maybe the next 2-3 races to confirm, however Barcelona is a good track to test its impact. Tough conditions on the race as well, but it seemingly did nothing to McLaren's pace in both long runs and low fuel performance runs.

I have some initial indications, but not about Mclaren. https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 7#p1290827 As I said, it's an onion. No one is looking for a silver bullet, but you have to understand that these discussions are relative. We are not comparing Mclaren to Sauber. No one thing on the Mclaren is worth the 1 second margin to Sauber. It is vs the Red Bull, Mclaren, and the Ferrari. When the difference between the cars is smaller, then you can discuss the small factors which could give 1 tenth and another tenth. It adds up to the difference between the cars.

But either way, I am mostly awaiting on RedBull's rumored rear corner updates. I am ready to eat my words if they make a clear jump in performance from that alone, but as things stand right now, I am personally very sceptical.

If they are able to extract more heat from the brake tins, they will cool the tires for which the drivers complain are too hot. If the update fails, they will not cool the tires better. So the result is implicit. Don't confuse the outcome for a "wrong objective". There's a reason that in 2017-2019 we saw the crazy wheel rim designs and the rim blowing. It was to cool the tires. There's a reason that Mclaren's brake drums are "blue"

[mwillems]

Perhaps instead of cooling the tyres, they simply do not heat the tyres as much?

Regarding the quote of the rear axle and Miami... He does say heat, but he isn't saying specifically it was the drums. More traction on the rears, better contact patch, less sliding... are other reasons why the rear tyres may not overheat, the car simply doesn't stress them so much.

The Mclaren is great on starts and on corner exits, its rear traction has been showing itself all year.

[AR3-GP]

Perhaps instead of cooling the tyres, they simply do not heat the tyres as much?

Regarding the quote of the rear axle and Miami... He does say heat, but he isn't saying specifically it was the drums. More traction on the rears, better contact patch, less sliding... are other reasons why the rear tyres may not overheat, the car simply doesn't stress them so much.

This doesn't explain this:

— According to Auto Motor und Sport, Red Bull remains unconvinced and has been monitoring McLaren’s brake ducts, claiming:

“Many blue areas around the brake vents on the McLaren tyres, while all the other cars showed a lot of orange and red.”

It is a profound discovery. 1 car shows something that no other car does. I already posted here before about how the MCL39 didn't have the slow warmup weakness of the RB19 and the SF24 which were great Sunday cars, but at a price. It's not about silver bullets. It's just a case of other teams understanding that Mclaren has A,B,C,D,E on their cars, and they would also like to have A,B,C,D,E to bring them closer.

The Mclaren is great on starts and on corner exits, its rear traction has been showing itself all year.

I haven't noticed anything special about Mclaren starts. They have some good ones on a day when others have bad ones but they also have some bad ones on a day when others have good ones.

Russell had the best start in Imola. Norris didn't have a good one in Spain. Piastri had the best one in Jeddah. Verstappen had the best one in Japan. Not a clear trend to me. Rear traction in a race stint is connected to tire temperatures among other things.

[BMMR61]

Oscar has been usually very strong on starts, yesterday he smoked them to turn 1 denying the much discussed likelihood of a slipstream overtake. Admittedly he was on brand new softs as opposed to 3ish lap olds immediately behind. Lando.... well he just got caught out on reaction - the lights went out in about 0.5 second, unprecedented, but no excuse. Pundits like Rosberg (and previously Brundle) have remarked on the excellent traction out of medium to high speed turns.

[BMMR61]

Toto confirmed it was an engine failure I believe. But a 49 point lead in the WDC is a very good buffer. I think if Max finished 3rd it would be a concern. But not really now.

Toto said on F1tv interview that was an oil problem and they need to investigate. So was not heat related.

And I keep my opinion that RB strategy was today the best, at least for them to put a constant and sensitive pressure on the two McLarens. Without the SC we might have a different outcome, Maybe for Oscar no problems but for Lando for sure a big headache.

I don't think so. Both McLaren had a faster pace and it was only the lap cars making things seem closer than they were. The only real difference is that Max most likely would have finished in 3rd and Hulk won't get a very complimentary classification.

BTW, anyone caught that they listed three drivers for the driver of day honors, and one of them was Kimi. 30 seconds later he is out of the race.

Frankly Kimi isn't having a generally astounding rookie season so far, for someone the media has been buzzing about nearly a year in advance! Shows how unfair all the hype is because the lad is doing fine without the unnecessary promotion! At this point, 9 races in and we compare how Oscar was doing (Silverstone 2023, robbed of podium) it's pretty close if their experienced teammates are used as a benchmark.

Anyway, sometimes, quite often, these DoDs seem far from a meritocracy, there've been some pretty astounding examples this year. I can understand Nico Hulkenberg getting the nod yesterday - superb drive and well rewarded. Shouldn't detract from a perfect drive by Oscar, well measured and fast when he needed to be. How mature is he already, and getting better all the time. He was quietly but clearly miffed by his failings by his high standards at Imola and Monaco and put in the second best drive (to Baku 2024) of his short F1 career. Having live timing running was very instructive how he kept plenty in hand throughout his medium tyre stint, really dropping the hammer before his pitstop.

[bauc]

What a great performance by the team, 1-2 superb drive by both drivers, I see some critic Lando's start, but forget that he was on the dirty side, and for Barcelona, P3 is better than P2 for a race start but NVM, overall great great race, fully in control, Max was aggressive with a 3 stop, but it was still a couple of seconds away so all good.

Also I'm relieved that this flex saga is now dead, in fact Mclaren had the biggest ''flex'' this weekend dominating all practice session, qualifying and the race.

[mwillems]

Lando was fine on Sunday. I felt that it would have been a big statement to win here and take the Championship lead, but Oscar kept it.

I was very happy with how Max dealt with Landos overtake, no unpleasantness. By and large I've felt his racing against the Mclarens has been fair this year.

[BMMR61]

It was another weekend that Oscar dominated. Until recently Lando has tended to have the upper hand, at least until qualifying and when the pressure goes on. This weekend Lando seemed to have released some of his internal pressure. He is criticised of course for his start, put it down to the unexpectedly short period to lights out. No excuses though. There seems to be sunshine in the camp and between the drivers, no signs of title rival angst yet. It's never been a better time to sit back over a non-GP weekend and appreciate the near perfect job the McLaren team are doing.

I know many of us have batted away the "dominant" McLaren talk, and I know I've been one, but it's time to start admitting that this is a dominant team to date. Since Australia and Oscar's unfortunate adventure on the grass and 9th place, there have been two McLarens on the podium for every GP since, and we've only been off the top step twice. More than 200 points up on Ferrari and Oscar 49 up on Max. The perfect start to a season so far.

[Emag]

... cut for better readability

Not sure where the "incensed" vibe came from. I thought I was just tossing my thoughts into the ring on a much-discussed topic. I saw it was mentioned over and over again so I gave my opinion.

Just to quickly clarify a couple of things from my end, as I think there might have been a slight misunderstanding on one point:

- When I used the phrase "one-trick-pony," I was specifically referring to the idea that McLaren's effective rear tyre temperature management could be attributed solely to a singular clever design within the rear brake drums themselves. I absolutely agree the car is a sum of many parts, or an onion, as you say. My point was that a complex thermal behaviour like this likely involves a more holistic design approach across the entire rear end, rather than one isolated magic bullet in the drums, especially given the regs.

On the Imola/Spain discussion and tracks being front or rear limited, that's a fair distinction. However, regarding Spain, it's also interesting to recall the first part of Stella's statement you quoted, where he explicitly mentioned expecting Red Bull to be closer. It certainly seemed Red Bull themselves were a bit dejected after Saturday in Spain, suggesting their expectations weren't fully met either. It just feels like brushing it off as only "Spain is rear-limited, therefore McLaren was strong" might be missing some nuance.

About the AMuS report on Red Bull monitoring McLaren's brake ducts: seeing "blue areas" on a thermal image is certainly an interesting observation of an effect (cooler spots). However, that doesn't automatically reveal the precise mechanism or confirm that the primary cooling influence originates entirely from within the brake drum design itself. It tells us what is happening to the surface temperatures, but the how it's achieved, especially in a way that significantly outperforms others within the rules, remains a question mark. You're making an assumption that the entire solution lies just there, because you (or anyone else) doesn't know for sure.

The comparison to the "crazy wheel rim designs" and rim blowing from 2017-2019 is a good reminder of how rules can be exploited, however, I think it also highlights how different the regulatory environment is now. Many of those intricate airflow pathways and blown axle concepts were specifically targeted and restricted by the FIA precisely because they became so powerful for tyre temperature management while also having a detriment effect on dirty air. The current regulations around the brake drums, ducting, and wheel internals are much more constrained, so it's not fair in my opinion to compare what's possible with current wheel rims to what was possible with those of 10 years ago. You're also making the assumption that McLaren has come up with a genius design that nobody else was able to see in the current regulations after 4 years. Unrealistic in my opinion, especially since you also agree that it's an area that can bring a lot of benefits, if it can be exploited.

Ultimately, I've just been offering my opinion. My core thought is that achieving the kind of rear tyre temperature management McLaren seems to have is unlikely to be possible solely through clever brake drum design alone, mainly because that specific area is so heavily constrained by the Technical Regulations and Directives. I believe it points to a more integrated solution. But hey, that's just my take, and you're absolutely free to have a different view.

[mwillems]

Totally agree. On face value, and I mentioned this in the other thread that it was originally posted in, that it seems to me that the Mclaren is not stressing the tyres as much due to both it's downforce and mechanical grip, which will be part of the solution they have with the suspension.

I looked at the telemetry earlier in the season and could see we were taking a slower entry with a view to taking a higher apex speed and better exit, likely to manage the cars traits. Looking at Monaco and Barcelona this still seems to be the case. There is earlier braking on the Q Laps coupled with higher apex and a strong exit, so I don't see anything new. I'm sure that the brakes are part of it but as you say, it isn't the only thing. This suspension setup is kind to it's tyres, likely designed that way with the cars flaws an acceptable part of what is ultimately a net lap time gain.

I saw the "incensed" comment, nearly replied to it yesterday, but chose to walk past it. I'd already thrown my oar in enough. Think it is more to do with that individual than you.

[Mostlyeels]

Anyway, sometimes, quite often, these DoDs seem far from a meritocracy, there've been some pretty astounding examples this year.

I think it counts towards the F1 Fantasy league, which probably contributes to gaming it too.