2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Waz]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsXTlMIWYAA ... name=large

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

You assume the engineer overseeing the running of the power unit knows anything about cooling design. Or is privy to the parts before assembly.

McLaren won't be giving away such an advantage on cooling. Some of them, were there when HPP shafted them for 2014 with deliberately not updating the cooling data and leading to McLaren designing a boat in comparison.

[Hammerfist]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GsXTlMIWYAA ... name=large

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

Unbelievable. So merc has fallen so far they dont even integrate their pu better than anyone anymore. Thanks for the reply.

[dialtone]

Didn’t the cooling company that Mercedes was working with end up in bankruptcy? Reaction Engine?

I think I read somewhere that they have only enough cooling parts left to end the 2025 and even then, since they don’t own the IP of the cooling, they are dealing with spares and putting pieces together.

If MCL really has their own cooling, it would partially explain why one team is breaking down and the other isn’t.

[ringo]

I think the failures could be from riding too low and getting impacts. Just a guess.

As for their inherent problem, I think they need to also look at how they collect raw data, that is how their measure their tyre temperatures. This is a fundamental thing that is easily overlooked. The darn temperature sensors could simply be aimed incorrectly, or too far way, or out of calibration, or more are needed to be measuring other areas.

[Matt2725]

How is it possible that the factory Merc car is having all these failures and meanwhile customer Mclaren is completely trouble free?

McLaren have a bespoke cooling package for their PU which is designed in house. It allows them to better cool the PU and you'll note, they often have smaller openings in the bodywork as a result.

Thing is, HPP will be fully aware of what McLaren are doing regarding cooling as their own employees are embedded within the customer teams, looking after the PU.

In theory, they could apply that knowledge to the works team but good luck getting it past the FIA I'd imagine.

Regarding Spain,
Russell's pace in the latter stages looked quite good all things equal. Both he and Max were actually catching Charles back up quite rapidly prior to their ding dong. Indeed even after that, Russell crossed the finish line very close to Leclerc.

You assume the engineer overseeing the running of the power unit knows anything about cooling design. Or is privy to the parts before assembly.

McLaren won't be giving away such an advantage on cooling. Some of them, were there when HPP shafted them for 2014 with deliberately not updating the cooling data and leading to McLaren designing a boat in comparison.

Considering the seamless integration required with the PU, the engineers overseeing the PU for McLaren I would expect would have intimate knowledge regarding the cooling setup for the unit.

Just for parameter monitoring and tuning purposes alone they'd need to know how the PU is being cooled and in what manner.

[SB15]

I think the failures could be from riding too low and getting impacts. Just a guess.

As for their inherent problem, I think they need to also look at how they collect raw data, that is how their measure their tyre temperatures. This is a fundamental thing that is easily overlooked. The darn temperature sensors could simply be aimed incorrectly, or too far way, or out of calibration, or more are needed to be measuring other areas.

They're setting the suspensions way too stiff, and that's only amplifying the tyre degradation and causing problem with reliability when it's being shaken by the curbs soo much. The systems in the car cuts the engine when it thinks something is not attached properly, so the Mercedes is working as it's designed and Kimi loves to be aggressive with riding curbs, so this only furthers the initial setup issues.

The rear suspension in Imola actually worked as intended when it came to addressing high speed cornering but the issue that it only exposed the much bigger problem with the Mercedes heating the tyres. For the brake drum design for the front and rear cooling, Mercedes are running one the smallest cooling entry and exits on the brake ducts which they're sacrificing for straight-line speed.

So Mercedes issues are a very, very simple problem to tackle. Put very large and aggressive beefy brake ducts for cooling front and rear, then redesign the inner housing for the tyre drums with the addition of major suspension damper upgrades, finally redesign the engine cover and you'll get a W16 that is:

Easier to setup, Easier to drive, Easier to manage tyres, Easier to develop. I have no doubt they'll do it in these next 2 races.

[Lasssept]

- Can we expect better fortunes in Montreal ?

James Allison: “It's a track where we've tended to find our feet relatively well in the past, so I'm looking forward to it. We've got one or two new bits to take with us and we'll see how we get on.“

- Allison reckoned the triple-header was ruined by Mercedes going in the wrong direction with its set-up for Imola and Monaco - something it managed to roll back a bit from in Spain. (The Race)

"I think the more important thing of these three races were we got the first couple pretty wrong on the way that we set the car up," he said.

"[We] asked too much of the rear axle, suffered badly as a consequence, and we approached Barcelona with something of a different mindset.

"And in a track which would have murdered our tyres if we'd gone at it like we did in Imola and Monaco, we actually were a bit more ourselves.

"So looking forward and knowing that we can do more of that and lean deeper into that in the races ahead, I think that's a good thing."

[ringo]

Good catch by the team. The car was better in Barcelona.
No deg issues to speak of. Just not on the pace of Red Bull.

[SB15]

Good catch by the team. The car was better in Barcelona.
No deg issues to speak of. Just not on the pace of Red Bull.

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

[Space-heat]

Good catch by the team. The car was better in Barcelona.
No deg issues to speak of. Just not on the pace of Red Bull.

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

[SB15]

Good catch by the team. The car was better in Barcelona.
No deg issues to speak of. Just not on the pace of Red Bull.

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

[Seanspeed]

I'll take resources over bravado.

It's not bravado, jesus christ.

It really is.

I'll take every tangible resource available over an arbitrary made up requirement.

Bravado implies arrogance or some undeserved confidence.

Top teams have built up earned confidence, though. Bravado has absolutely nothing to do with anything. There's a reason that F1 tends to have periods of dominance, rather than one-offs.

[Lasssept]

[OverheatedTurbo]

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

It all depends if they figure it out in time though. They are probably working on the front/rear drum brakes like the rest, but it’s something that takes time. If they can’t improve the tyre management, then it’s over.

[SB15]

Never listen to planetf1! it’s a Verstappen backed news site.