McLaren MCL39

[mwillems]

RB20 turned to 11.

https://i.postimg.cc/X7KzfdrP/gettyimag ... 2-copy.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fW9Fb6DD/gettyimag ... 3-copy.jpg

There was a time not long ago that our little papaya car looked under developed. Just look at that suspension setup, it's like sculpture.

[ringo]

A simple curiosity of the 39 is also where the water slide starts on the side pod. It starts very much behind the cockpit compared to Ferrari and other teams. Some cars have none, like the Mercedes, others have it, but it starts closer to the front.
The brakes and suspension and flex wing would have you believe there is no devil in the details of the body.

[Andi76]

McLaren used again a big tank, nearly 3-4
liters capacity filled with dry ice to be able
cool the cockpit for prologued time. In fact
the way MCL39 runs wears the skid block
further forward than most of the cars, right
under the cockpit area, increasing the heath
under the driver.

[M840TR]

A simple curiosity of the 39 is also where the water slide starts on the side pod. It starts very much behind the cockpit compared to Ferrari and other teams. Some cars have none, like the Mercedes, others have it, but it starts closer to the front.
The brakes and suspension and flex wing would have you believe there is no devil in the details of the body.

They introduced that design in Miami 24 to reduce drag.

[Farnborough]

https://postimg.cc/06vgwg1P

McLaren used again a big tank, nearly 3-4
liters capacity filled with dry ice to be able
cool the cockpit for prologued time. In fact
the way MCL39 runs wears the skid block
further forward than most of the cars, right
under the cockpit area, increasing the heath
under the driver.

And soooo ...... 3 to 4 litres of dry ice capacity, unidentified "silicone" hose within rear brake assembly !

2+2=5 I'm surprised there's not any conspiracy theory floating around, anywhere.

I don't believe it's a system, but nobody talking about it at least just seems odd.

[ringo]

McLaren understand the tyres better than the other teams. They take more than just 1 lap to bring the tyres up to working temperature. I noticed this listening to Piastri and Lando's radio.
The car is probably very much biased to qualifying at the front, then managing the pace from there to bring in the tyres carefully, as counter intuitive as that sounds giving MCL39's strong tyre management and race pace.

[mwillems]

McLaren understand the tyres better than the other teams. They take more than just 1 lap to bring the tyres up to working temperature. I noticed this listening to Piastri and Lando's radio.
The car is probably very much biased to qualifying at the front, then managing the pace from there to bring in the tyres carefully, as counter intuitive as that sounds giving MCL39's strong tyre management and race pace.

It's what Merc did, built a car that wasn't great in dirty air, and was designed to get in front and stay in front.

Worth mentioning too that the Mclaren did 2 fast laps on the same times in Q3 recently, setting the fastest times on the second having done a cooldown lap in the middle. Quite astounding.

[.poz]

https://postimg.cc/06vgwg1P

McLaren used again a big tank, nearly 3-4
liters capacity filled with dry ice to be able
cool the cockpit for prologued time. In fact
the way MCL39 runs wears the skid block
further forward than most of the cars, right
under the cockpit area, increasing the heath
under the driver.

And soooo ...... 3 to 4 litres of dry ice capacity, unidentified "silicone" hose within rear brake assembly !

2+2=5 I'm surprised there's not any conspiracy theory floating around, anywhere.

I don't believe it's a system, but nobody talking about it at least just seems odd.

i never heard of a team adding weight just to cool the driver....

btw If my memory serves me correctly, FIA said that cooling the brakes with a gas it's not against the rules

[Andi76]

https://postimg.cc/06vgwg1P

McLaren used again a big tank, nearly 3-4
liters capacity filled with dry ice to be able
cool the cockpit for prologued time. In fact
the way MCL39 runs wears the skid block
further forward than most of the cars, right
under the cockpit area, increasing the heath
under the driver.

And soooo ...... 3 to 4 litres of dry ice capacity, unidentified "silicone" hose within rear brake assembly !

2+2=5 I'm surprised there's not any conspiracy theory floating around, anywhere.

I don't believe it's a system, but nobody talking about it at least just seems odd.

There is! An Italian on its Youtube Channel says:"Are they trying to pull our leg? 3 to 4 kg of extra weight so far away from the CoG to cool the driver? That serves a different purpose!" According to him, these 3 kg of dry ice are supposed to cool the tires... The theory that dry ice, which changes its state to gas at 5 degrees, is used to cool the tires says it all.

[Macklaren]

https://postimg.cc/06vgwg1P

McLaren used again a big tank, nearly 3-4
liters capacity filled with dry ice to be able
cool the cockpit for prologued time. In fact
the way MCL39 runs wears the skid block
further forward than most of the cars, right
under the cockpit area, increasing the heath
under the driver.

And soooo ...... 3 to 4 litres of dry ice capacity, unidentified "silicone" hose within rear brake assembly !

2+2=5 I'm surprised there's not any conspiracy theory floating around, anywhere.

I don't believe it's a system, but nobody talking about it at least just seems odd.

There is! An Italian on its Youtube Channel says:"Are they trying to pull our leg? 3 to 4 kg of extra weight so far away from the CoG to cool the driver? That serves a different purpose!" According to him, these 3 kg of dry ice are supposed to cool the tires... The theory that dry ice, which changes its state to gas at 5 degrees, is used to cool the tires says it all.

Waiting for a rival to brake check the McLarens in Canada because we are one nose change away from proving this thesis is another fantasy herring

[Andi76]

And soooo ...... 3 to 4 litres of dry ice capacity, unidentified "silicone" hose within rear brake assembly !

2+2=5 I'm surprised there's not any conspiracy theory floating around, anywhere.

I don't believe it's a system, but nobody talking about it at least just seems odd.

There is! An Italian on its Youtube Channel says:"Are they trying to pull our leg? 3 to 4 kg of extra weight so far away from the CoG to cool the driver? That serves a different purpose!" According to him, these 3 kg of dry ice are supposed to cool the tires... The theory that dry ice, which changes its state to gas at 5 degrees, is used to cool the tires says it all.

Waiting for a rival to brake check the McLarens in Canada because we are one nose change away from proving this thesis is another fantasy herring

This theory is so ridiculous that I don't think there's anything to worry about in this regard. A material weighing 3 to 4 kg that turns into a gaseous state at 5 degrees Celsius is supposed to keep four tires and brakes within the window for an entire race? That alone is completely absurd. The next question is: how is the gas supposed to get there to cool it? There are no pipes, units, or ducts that could transport it there. Therefore, this theory is so absurd in every respect that there is no danger of anyone with any sense taking it seriously.

[.poz]

A material weighing 3 to 4 kg that turns into a gaseous state at 5 degrees Celsius is supposed to keep four tires and brakes within the window for an entire race?

this is pure speculation

let's assume they are cooling only rear wheels

it' 3-4 litres, dry ice density is about 1,5 so it's 4,5-6kg

6 kg of dry ice generates 3300 litres of CO2.

for a 90 minutes race it's 18,3 litres/minute (or 0,3 l/sec) of 5C CO2 for each wheel

again, this is pure speculation but nobody add 4,5-6kg of weight on a F1 car just too cool the drivers (and the mandatory cooling equipment by FIA is totally different)

[Emag]

If they’re happy with the balance (very loaded front), they can remove the front wing ballast and put that weight somewhere else where it can benefit drivers as well.

It doesn’t have to be so complicated.

EDIT:
Although as I come back to this, I guess this doesn't really make much sense since the 4kg of dry ice probably evaporates over the race distance, so they have to be careful with being underweight. Have they had this much dry ice at every race so far, or has it only been limited to the hotter races only?

[mwillems]

If they’re happy with the balance (very loaded front), they can remove the front wing ballast and put that weight somewhere else where it can benefit drivers as well.

It doesn’t have to be so complicated.

EDIT:
Although as I come back to this, I guess this doesn't really make much sense since the 4kg of dry ice probably evaporates over the race distance, so they have to be careful with being underweight. Have they had this much dry ice at every race so far, or has it only been limited to the hotter races only?

But if the car displays its tyre whispering during extreme heat, perhaps they are happy to take the extra weight?

It won't be used often and it possibly is only made full during the most extreme situations. I'm not sure, but we should assume I guess.

With the positioning of the dry ice, is it able to cool the fluid in the master cylinders? Assuming they are hydraulic.

[Andi76]

A material weighing 3 to 4 kg that turns into a gaseous state at 5 degrees Celsius is supposed to keep four tires and brakes within the window for an entire race?

this is pure speculation

let's assume they are cooling only rear wheels

it' 3-4 litres, dry ice density is about 1,5 so it's 4,5-6kg

6 kg of dry ice generates 3300 litres of CO2.

for a 90 minutes race it's 18,3 litres/minute (or 0,3 l/sec) of 5C CO2 for each wheel

again, this is pure speculation but nobody add 4,5-6kg of weight on a F1 car just too cool the drivers (and the mandatory cooling equipment by FIA is totally different)

Most cars in 2025 will be 5 to 10 kg below the minimum weight. In 2023, the Alpine was already 8 kg below the weight limit. Placing 5 kg in the center of the front axle should therefore not be a problem, and ballast so far forward would not be unusual. In 2006, Ferrari had ballast right at the front of the nose... Of course, there were no regulations regarding weight distribution at that time, but the current regulations allow for a margin of approximately 12 kg. Even additional weight to cool the driver would not matter in the case of an official heat race, as the weight limit is raised in such cases.

Your calculation is very nice, but how would the gas reach the rear tires? There would have to be a direct connection. And above all, would something that sublimes at -78,5 degrees be used for cooling something that gets +100 to 140 degrees hot (basket + tires)? 5 kg of dry ice "melts" outdoors at 30 degrees in about half an hour. Sure, the container would be well insulated, so it would last much longer, but considering the energy and temperatures generated by an F1 car when braking... an F1 car generates 2.8 MW of energy every time it brakes, enough to power a small town for 14 hours. So the forces, energy, and heat are enormous. And a little dry ice with a direct connection... and you also have to keep in mind the mass to cool. I find it hard to imagine that this would survive for any length of time, also it would be a very ineffective cooling system, especially since it would be difficult to "adjust". The latter is almost the bigger problem for me, because you would have to calculate the exact amount of gas and adjust it to keep everything "within the window" permanently. That would be very difficult, more difficult than "durability." Because ultimately, when you think about it, we're talking about a few degrees that this system actually has to cool down, since the brake ventilation should already keep the tires close to the window. So if you've managed to develop a system that only transfers in one direction...
The "cold spots" could indicate that gas is flowing in there... SPECULATION, I would like to emphasize again. But be that as it may, it would not be very efficient, very difficult to "adjust," especially permanently consistent.

Much more effective and efficient would be a material that melts at 140 degrees and absorbs the heat up to that point. But anyway, it's all speculation. I find it hard to imagine. What is clear to me is that McLaren has definitely done something with the brakes. The burning brakes and the problems they had clearly indicate this. However, I am NOT saying that this is one of the systems that has been and continues to be the subject of so much speculation.