2025 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal, June 13 - 15

[FW17]

With traffic always a problem in all these smaller and narrower tracks, why doesn't the FIA change the rules so that qualifying laps start at and end at sector 1?

Each lap cycle will be restricted / reduced to 2 laps, and drivers will have less to complain about or try those abnormal tyre cooling tricks as they have to get on it as soon as they get out of the pits. The return lap will be short 2 sector lap, with it being easier to penalize slow cars, and with 2 lap runs, cool down laps will not be happening on track but at their respective pit boxes or garages.

[SharkY]

With traffic always a problem in all these smaller and narrower tracks, why doesn't the FIA change the rules so that qualifying laps start at and end at sector 1?

Each lap cycle will be restricted / reduced to 2 laps, and drivers will have less to complain about or try those abnormal tyre cooling tricks as they have to get on it as soon as they get out of the pits. The return lap will be short 2 sector lap, with it being easier to penalize slow cars, and with 2 lap runs, cool down laps will not be happening on track but at their respective pit boxes or garages.

Wait, so how would the drivers heat up the tyres? Like in Canada, they would have to do it just on a short straight between T2-T3, while avoiding impeding any cars that are finishing a hot lap.

[FW17]

With traffic always a problem in all these smaller and narrower tracks, why doesn't the FIA change the rules so that qualifying laps start at and end at sector 1?

Each lap cycle will be restricted / reduced to 2 laps, and drivers will have less to complain about or try those abnormal tyre cooling tricks as they have to get on it as soon as they get out of the pits. The return lap will be short 2 sector lap, with it being easier to penalize slow cars, and with 2 lap runs, cool down laps will not be happening on track but at their respective pit boxes or garages.

Wait, so how would the drivers heat up the tyres? Like in Canada, they would have to do it just on a short straight between T2-T3, while avoiding impeding any cars that are finishing a hot lap.

The problem with tyres has been over the last few years, drivers trying to cool them below the blanket temperatures (to reduce tyre pressures) before the start of the hot lap.

[FittingMechanics]

With traffic always a problem in all these smaller and narrower tracks, why doesn't the FIA change the rules so that qualifying laps start at and end at sector 1?

Each lap cycle will be restricted / reduced to 2 laps, and drivers will have less to complain about or try those abnormal tyre cooling tricks as they have to get on it as soon as they get out of the pits. The return lap will be short 2 sector lap, with it being easier to penalize slow cars, and with 2 lap runs, cool down laps will not be happening on track but at their respective pit boxes or garages.

Wait, so how would the drivers heat up the tyres? Like in Canada, they would have to do it just on a short straight between T2-T3, while avoiding impeding any cars that are finishing a hot lap.

IndyCar does it the opposite way. Their timing line in qualy is a little bit before the pit entry, so the cars have almost full lap to warm up, then they do their lap and then can pit immediately after.

It's one less lap you need to do, but I am not sold on the idea. Not sure you gain a lot. Already we have plenty of time without cars out in qualifying, this would make it even worse.

[Seanspeed]

There’s just as much unfairness that happens all the time now - just look at the laments of Leclerc and Alonso at Imola. It happens all the time that people luck into a safety car pistop (Norris winning the sprint in Miami, for example) but more importantly it creates unadventurous strategies because safety cars happen so much more frequently than they used to, so it’s statistically safer to make your strategy include them.

But I’m not suggesting this to be more “fair” (that was your word), I’m suggesting it to make the races more interesting.

Again, banning pitstops under VSC makes a lot of sense, while banning pitstops under a full safety car is obviously just awful. It was literally tried before and reverted quickly because of how bad it worked out. And then we got VSC which kind of saved the day and provided a superior alternative when possible.

If you just want races to be more interesting, there's a million ways to achieve that if you dont care about fairness. Maybe introduce a 'fan vote' like in Formula E where viewers get to vote on who they want to have a huge engine power boost over everybody else. Maybe have dice throws during the race which determine if a driver/car have to serve an extra pitstop. Maybe there should be race weekends where there's literally no sporting regulations at all and drivers can do whatever they want.

Fairness of competition should be the #1 goal of all rules inclusions, and anything that provides an 'unfair' situation should be ruled out where possible. Unless you dont view F1 as an actual sport or real competition.

I don’t understand why you think this is would be more unfair than it currently is?

I literally explained why it's unfair. And it's literally been tried and basically immediately reversed because it was terrible. The current situation isn't perfectly fair, but it's more fair than completely banning pitstops under a full safety car.

AGAIN, banning pitstops under VSC would certainly be an improvement, though. Because nobody is at risk of running out of fuel or anything and old tires aren't gonna blow running at low speeds. It still wouldn't be perfect as perhaps if you really do need to pit on old tires, but the race goes green right after you pass the pitlane entry and have to do an extra lap on those bad tires before pitting, but that's a minor concession to an otherwise much fairer situation.

[Bill]

There are people who dont want to accept that charles is crash prone

[SB15]

There are people who dont want to accept that charles is crash prone

This is the unfortunate truth

[Seanspeed]

There are people who dont want to accept that charles is crash prone

There are people who dont know what confirmation bias is.

Most of Charles' incidents occur in practices. Lewis was often known for pushing over the limits during practice as well. Tons of times that people would talk about how Lewis missed a chunk of this practice session and that would put him on the backfoot and then he still nailed qualifying and performed well in the race. Charles is in good company in that regard.

[search]

Piastri constantly loses half a second in sector 1. Not sure what they are doing there. Maybe struggling to turn on the tires?

[matt_b]

Piastri constantly loses half a second in sector 1. Not sure what they are doing there. Maybe struggling to turn on the tires?

Looks that way but fortunately for them its not a sprint weekend so plenty of time to find solutions by the time qualifying comes around.

[venkyhere]

f1-dash is still showing barcelona for me.
What other 'free' dashboards are there to use 'live' ?

[DJ Downforce]

Jeez I know it's only fp1 but only three pages on the race thread. McLaren dominance effect?

[f1316]

Again, banning pitstops under VSC makes a lot of sense, while banning pitstops under a full safety car is obviously just awful. It was literally tried before and reverted quickly because of how bad it worked out. And then we got VSC which kind of saved the day and provided a superior alternative when possible.

If you just want races to be more interesting, there's a million ways to achieve that if you dont care about fairness. Maybe introduce a 'fan vote' like in Formula E where viewers get to vote on who they want to have a huge engine power boost over everybody else. Maybe have dice throws during the race which determine if a driver/car have to serve an extra pitstop. Maybe there should be race weekends where there's literally no sporting regulations at all and drivers can do whatever they want.

Fairness of competition should be the #1 goal of all rules inclusions, and anything that provides an 'unfair' situation should be ruled out where possible. Unless you dont view F1 as an actual sport or real competition.

I don’t understand why you think this is would be more unfair than it currently is?

I literally explained why it's unfair. And it's literally been tried and basically immediately reversed because it was terrible. The current situation isn't perfectly fair, but it's more fair than completely banning pitstops under a full safety car.

AGAIN, banning pitstops under VSC would certainly be an improvement, though. Because nobody is at risk of running out of fuel or anything and old tires aren't gonna blow running at low speeds. It still wouldn't be perfect as perhaps if you really do need to pit on old tires, but the race goes green right after you pass the pitlane entry and have to do an extra lap on those bad tires before pitting, but that's a minor concession to an otherwise much fairer situation.

OK not much point debating any further - you described why you thought it was unfair but not why it is more unfair than what currently occurs. Right now, someone like Leclerc in Imola has pitted early, gone aggressive, seemingly performed an undercut well and an SC messes that all up - that's also unfair. The difference is, it's unfair in a way that benefits the cars who stay out and maintain track position, as opposed to those who are aggressive and make an early stop. I'm saying that - given there will be some degree of unfairness either way, since it's pure luck when an SC comes out - why not move the person it favours to the folks who have gone aggressive and therefore incentivise early/more stops rather than later/fewer stops. This is different than we had in the past when it was tried because refuelling fundamentally changes the equation - i.e. you cannot decide to stay out if you're running out of fuel.

But it's just an idea at the end of the day and probably no chance of it happening, so not a big deal. I just don't understand why one is more fair than the other since it just moves who benefits most from luck.

[venkyhere]

Jeez I know it's only fp1 but only three pages on the race thread. McLaren dominance effect?

Constructors is foregone conclusion anyway. For WDC, Barcelona was an inflexion point - if there was a chance for Redbull & Max to put up a meaningful fight, that was the chance. It was a litmus test, and both driver and team blew it. The kind of tracks and temperatures in store for the remainder of the season is going to be cakewalk for McLaren. Probably everyone has 'resigned' to a 2023 like 'boring' season.

[Seanspeed]

I don’t understand why you think this is would be more unfair than it currently is?

I literally explained why it's unfair. And it's literally been tried and basically immediately reversed because it was terrible. The current situation isn't perfectly fair, but it's more fair than completely banning pitstops under a full safety car.

AGAIN, banning pitstops under VSC would certainly be an improvement, though. Because nobody is at risk of running out of fuel or anything and old tires aren't gonna blow running at low speeds. It still wouldn't be perfect as perhaps if you really do need to pit on old tires, but the race goes green right after you pass the pitlane entry and have to do an extra lap on those bad tires before pitting, but that's a minor concession to an otherwise much fairer situation.

OK not much point debating any further - you described why you thought it was unfair but not why it is more unfair than what currently occurs. Right now, someone like Leclerc in Imola has pitted early, gone aggressive, seemingly performed an undercut well and an SC messes that all up - that's also unfair. The difference is, it's unfair in a way that benefits the cars who stay out and maintain track position, as opposed to those who are aggressive and make an early stop. I'm saying that - given there will be some degree of unfairness either way, since it's pure luck when an SC comes out - why not move the person it favours to the folks who have gone aggressive and therefore incentivise early/more stops rather than later/fewer stops. This is different than we had in the past when it was tried because refuelling fundamentally changes the equation - i.e. you cannot decide to stay out if you're running out of fuel.

But it's just an idea at the end of the day and probably no chance of it happening, so not a big deal. I just don't understand why one is more fair than the other since it just moves who benefits most from luck.

It's more unfair because the penalty for getting caught out is basically an automatic race over.

If you're nearing your pit window, but then a safety car comes out and you cant pit and the entire field bunches up and then you STILL have to pit right after it goes green, you're basically automatically gonna be put into like last place, and likely with a strong gap to even get to 2nd-to-last. You could literally be in 1st place and get sent to last place because of something like this. The sheer extremities of the potential consequences are ridiculous.

Obviously it wouldn't always work like this cuz others might be in your same situation, but we still shouldn't allow for it to ever happen. This is clearly much less fair than simply gaining/losing like roughly 8 seconds or so.