venkyhere wrote: ↑12 Jun 2025, 13:59
ringo wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025, 17:28
venkyhere wrote: ↑09 Jun 2025, 11:47
Sorry to say, I haven't read anything crappier than this about 'driving' rwd cars with no tc/abs ; in my entire life.
Sometimes you should think before you type. If you think the F1 drivers feel everything before they react then you have a lot to learn. Rear wheel drive doesnt matter. An F1 car is not a sports car. It's an aerodynamic car firstly. The drivers are likely driving on faith in the machine 50% of the time. They are not feeling and reacting to everything. A perfect example is under braking. This is why so many time drivers make mistakes and fall of the track when the tyres are not up to temperature or the track is a little damp. They had faith in grip that they cannot feel until it's too late. They know and believe they should be able to brake at 100m or go through a corner at 150kph. But once the conditions change especially the tyres.. there's only so much you can feel and react to.
The younger drivers depend less on feeling and more on what the simulations say should be possible.
See Antonelli free practice debut last year at Monza. Blind faith in performance expectation is what happened.
Oh god. More of the same.
it's impossible to drive a racing car without 'feel'. That too something from a category that has one of the hardest suspensions of all categories of racing. To say that 50% of the time they don't bother about feel and drive on blind trust alone, is absurd. Trust me, either you don't know what you are talking about, or are not articulating well what you are trying to say. Driving such ultra sensitive cars (F1 cars in general, from any era) is like a delicate dance, it cannot happen without 'feeling' what the car is doing, all the time. The only difference between 'in control' and 'lost control' is 'how well the feel was judged' for previous input and how well the next input is going to be provided 'in prediction' of how the car is going to react next. A glaring example of this mechanism - the 'build up' of the laps they do in practice, before quali, successively trying to exploit the limit of grip more and more each time they run.
To say that 'feedback' is less important to younger generation drivers who have grown up on sims , than the older generation, is incorrect. What you call 'throwing the car around' is what even the older generation did. Just that newer generation cars have more 'tools' to on-the-fly adjust the behavior of the car to driver inputs. The human mechanism of 'driving' has always been the same.
This would need a new thread, but none of us have ever driven an F-1 car. No point in arguing on the superficial ideas of how a car feel and dancing ect. You basically created statements i never made like " driver's don't bother" and "less important" to frame a narrative to suit your argument.
Humans detect stimulus, and react, and the muscles respond. If you add even the ultimate limit of all of those, you will see that it's a wider gap than some of the gaps between drivers in a phase in a corner.
Visual stimulus 250 milliseconds, touch/pressure 150, brain processing 200ms, not to mention moving the muscles.
Anything response to stimulus faster than 200 milliseconds is anticipatory. Those are scientific facts. So again, just do a little research on human limits. These super fast cars are not driven on pure seat of the pants reaction like you think. Most of it is anticipatory, and again this new generation of driver has an advantage from their upbringing with simulations vs the older drivers who leaned on real life testing to hone their feel and anticipation. And remember the cornering speeds and gaps and the whole precision of the sport is way more granular today than in the past.
So no, feedback is not less important to current drivers, but being used to training in a sim, where there is no real feedback means there is less reliance on feedback and more trust in the specified performance.
