building a traction control system

[Mets]

Hi everyone,

Well, my first project that I was assigned to after I joined my school's SAE team was to start building an electronic traction control system, and I have to say I'm at a little bit of a loss. Now I know what it does and how it helps the car (by the way, I guess our car has 2-3 times as much rear wheel rotation as front wheel rotation, hence why I'm building an ETC/ASR system), but I haven’t the slightest idea where to begin. I have a MechE who is helping me who has picked out some products for us to use, but ultimately, all of the circuitry, microprocessing, telling the car to drop revs/pick up revs, programming, etc. is going to come down to me, and possible one other EE/computer science person. 2006 SAE rules apply.

So, on that note, does anybody have any advice, know where I should start, has built an etc system, knows of a walk through, etc.? Thanks a million, and yes this is going on this year's car (:roll:).

Mets

[manchild]

What about stripping down some crashed passenger car with TC (ASR)? Car graveyards were always inspiring to me.

Perhaps you should check for some good car graveyard/junkyard and find a car with functional TC system. After that get advice from mechanics specialized for that make/model and check the manufactures data before possibly buying some or all elements of transmission/TC.

If you have to make whole system on your own without using existing parts you could than copy the system you acquired part by part instead of calculating and reinventing the whole thing.

Does this make any sense to you?

[bh]

You have two major issues to deal with-

You need the hardware to sample the wheel speed sensors, process the information, and cut ignition/fuel accordingly.

You also need the code to drive the traction control.


Aftermarket ECUs like Motec take care of the hardware side for you, and I believe they even come with some TC code already in them. Either way, that might be a way to go.

Go start talking to professors about what you are trying to do- if you have not had the classes on this stuff yet then some strong faculty support could make or break the project.

[DaveKillens]

I would suggest you first start off constructing a logic diagram of the traction control system, the hardware, and their relationship to each other, and the flow of commands and input. Then you can begin to see the relationships between components, and your need to integrate the commands, flow of data.

[West]

TC was actually one of the reasons why I didn't join our FSAE team. All the members at the meeting didn't know how an engine works (the extreme basics like fuel + air = power) or what RPM meant, and then when the leader wanted TC, I was like "forget it"

[Monstrobolaxa]

Well the principal of TC is quite simple...the problem comes in when you starting crunching the numbers and programming! Now that will give you guys a big head ache....and if the programming doesn't give you one probably you'll sooner or later have another one when you realise that it isn't working properly!

I still wonder how FSAE teams loose a lot of time creating fanatastic cars with up to date technology!...but like Carrol Smith said: "the FSAE (FStudent) is a business project not properly an engineering competition"

The basic idea is to create a project that has to be built and be affordable to the builder and to the public, while having certain dynamic parameters. (unless the regs changed and the competition is more engineering orientated nowadays)!

[West]

Monstro is right. As a member of a Mini Baja team, our leader emphasized that you are trying to convince FSAE why should they buy your car. Of course, the meat of the points comes from the events themselves, so in this sense it can be confusing.

I had to do a presentation on marketing our car... we made the presentation an hour before it was due, rigth outside the building
We got 85/100

[Mets]

Thanks a bunch guys, I really appreciate the help. We have a lot of design meetings coming up, so we'll do some better planning of our resources and, most likely will start the TC project. I'll let you know how it's turning out, and, as Monstro said, all the...uh...problems that we're not going to have, because we have too much to do this year as it is

[Monstrobolaxa]

Good luck

[bh]

Check this out

http://fsae.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... 2910117511

[riff_raff]

Mets,

I understand that the FSAE competition is mostly a test of engineering skills, but consider this: the best, and least expensive, form of traction control is a skilled driver. Alain Prost (on road courses) and Rick Mears (on ovals) were never the fastest drivers, but they were always the smoothest, and that's how they won.

Also, the FSAE rules dictate a N/A 610cc 4-stroke engine. At most, you can expect to get about 80 hp. That's probably not enough to break traction easily with your car under acceleration, so your traction control will really only help during braking. The FSAE rules have a $25,000 "cost limit", so would you consider the significant time and effort required for a traction control system to be money well spent?

It's just my opinion, but I'd say you'd be better off focusing your efforts on reliability. As the old saying goes, "To finish first, you must first finish".

Good luck.

[bh]

Except the rules don't require an NA engine, and by the way the cost rules work, electronics that you design/build yourself cost almost nothing.