2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[deadhead]

Did either of them talk about the upgrades?

nope, fred did mention theyre doing a filming day though

Suspension test at Mugello

[Luscion]

Lewis saying in ferrari's debrief after the race both him and Charles pinpointed the exact same issue with the car

[GrizzleBoy]

I think i learned something that confused me for a bit regarding Lewis' car preferences as I'd long heard about his preference for a car with a looser rear and couldn't really understand why the Ferrari and maybe the Merc wouldnt work for him.

Then I heard the word "snappy" a lot today and maybe it made a bit more sense.

With indoor karts, it's easy to get the rears to slide in a very predictable way that you can produce quite reliably and control quite easily if you know what you're doing.

This allows you to brake very late, with the expectation that the rear will step out and you can anticipate and control it to rotate the kart round a corner.

However, if those Karts had a loose rear that was also "snappy" there would be no way to be confident to brake late because you couldn't trust how the rear would act while trail braking into the apex, you couldn't trust how it would rotate around the apex, and you couldn't trust it wouldnt step out once you put the power down on corner exit.

So a loose rear, is not the same as a snappy rear, and it seems that is the problem.


Edit: And maybe it's another problem when the rear isn't actually loose at all (which seems much more the case with these regs cars), and instead of going from from controllable slip to a snap, it goes straight from stable to snap like a light switch.

[Vinlarr89]

LEC and VER both like this type of dna in the car, both cars were all over the place in the wet conditions today even Verstappen couldn’t hold onto the bull.
The mclarens must be so perfectly balanced because their operating window is frightening compared to the rest

[Hammerfist]

Lewis saying in ferrari's debrief after the race both him and Charles pinpointed the exact same issue with the car

Did anyone tell Lewis that next year are new regulations? He’s talking about McLaren like they will be the fastest car next year. Funny guy. lol

[rifrafs2kees]

I think i learned something that confused me for a bit regarding Lewis' car preferences as I'd long heard about his preference for a car with a looser rear and couldn't really understand why the Ferrari and maybe the Merc wouldnt work for him.

Then I heard the word "snappy" a lot today and maybe it made a bit more sense.

With indoor karts, it's easy to get the rears to slide in a very predictable way that you can produce quite reliably and control quite easily if you know what you're doing.

This allows you to brake very late, with the expectation that the rear will step out and you can anticipate and control it to rotate the kart round a corner.

However, if those Karts had a loose rear that was also "snappy" there would be no way to be confident to brake late because you couldn't trust how the rear would act while trail braking into the apex, you couldn't trust how it would rotate around the apex, and you couldn't trust it wouldnt step out once you put the power down on corner exit.

So a loose rear, is not the same as a snappy rear, and it seems that is the problem.


Edit: And maybe it's another problem when the rear isn't actually loose at all (which seems much more the case with these regs cars), and instead of going from from controllable slip to a snap, it goes straight from stable to snap like a light switch.

I've always suspected as much. There's a video out there of Fernando saying how the 2007 McLaren had lots of oversteer, and we could see how Hamilton slide those rears on many a occasion.

However, I do also believe that he'd changed his style significantly to cope with the Pirelli cheese tires. The partnership with Charles could be just be the right impetus for reintroduction of oversteery balance into his toolbox.

I'm very interested in how this shapes up but the signs are looking positive.

[Macklaren]

Did anyone tell Lewis that next year are new regulations? He’s talking about McLaren like they will be the fastest car next year. Funny guy. lol

Mercedes 2026 engine+ McLaren chassis going to be quite, something unless McLaren completely F up

[ScuderiaLeo]

Lewis saying in ferrari's debrief after the race both him and Charles pinpointed the exact same issue with the car

I'm unable to see the post for some reason. Did he say or hint at what the exact issue is? Also did he mean just today or in general?

It sounds like there's multiple issues with the car so it could be any number of things

LEC and VER both like this type of dna in the car, both cars were all over the place in the wet conditions today even Verstappen couldn’t hold onto the bull.
The mclarens must be so perfectly balanced because their operating window is frightening compared to the rest

I agree though it's also simply the teams didn't anticipate that level of rain during the race, else I'm sure guys like Ver/Lec would have taken a different approach to their setup.

[Luscion]

Lewis saying in ferrari's debrief after the race both him and Charles pinpointed the exact same issue with the car

I'm unable to see the post for some reason. Did he say or hint at what the exact issue is? Also did he mean just today or in general?

It sounds like there's multiple issues with the car so it could be any number of things

maybe person made it so you have to follow them to see it, but no he didnt go into specifics, he just said they just had a debrief after the race, in the debrief they talked about where the problems are and that both him and Charles pinpointed exactly what the problem is

[theWPTformula]

I've always suspected as much. There's a video out there of Fernando saying how the 2007 McLaren had lots of oversteer, and we could see how Hamilton slide those rears on many a occasion.

However, I do also believe that he'd changed his style significantly to cope with the Pirelli cheese tires. The partnership with Charles could be just be the right impetus for reintroduction of oversteery balance into his toolbox.

I'm very interested in how this shapes up but the signs are looking positive.

We're going slightly off topic but I've been wanting to discuss this for some time, so...

The 2007 Bridgestones were designed to induce oversteer (see https://ms.bridgestone.co.jp/special/do ... regs/2007/). They were robust to sliding, helped by the low minimum weight limit (605 kg). Presumably the aero loads were lower, too. I think Bridgestone may have dialled back the oversteer in 2008.

LH has driven very similarly across all regulation cycles to my eye, including 2007. He went through a longer Pirelli-learning phase than other drivers IIRC, which seemed to alter his driving and approach to car setup for the race in particular.

I think LH and CL might want similar things at the corner entry: They both brake late and deep and want to get into a corner early. After that I think their styles diverge. In the mid-corner, LH finesses while CL hustles. At the exit, LH prefers stability and progressive sliding that breaks away predictably, whereas CL doesn't seem to mind the back end skating around a bit to complete the rotation. Overall CL's car balance looks more forward, and this has been confirmed by LH in an interview recently, I believe. (For me, CL's style straddles interestingly between LH and MV.)

These are just observations from years of watching, I have no data to show for my thinking. I would welcome any data insights to support or discount my thoughts.

[Hammerfist]

Did anyone tell Lewis that next year are new regulations? He’s talking about McLaren like they will be the fastest car next year. Funny guy. lol

Mercedes 2026 engine+ McLaren chassis going to be quite, something unless McLaren completely F up

Its a completely different set of aero rules. Where ge matters a lot less. And its doubtful that mclaren will integrate the new pu better than mercedes. Almost no chance at all that mclaren is faster tgan merc next year and we don’t even know for sure who will have the best pu.

[deadhead]

Did anyone tell Lewis that next year are new regulations? He’s talking about McLaren like they will be the fastest car next year. Funny guy. lol

Mercedes 2026 engine+ McLaren chassis going to be quite, something unless McLaren completely F up

Not with the technical team they currently employ they won't

[MattLightBlue]

Did anyone tell Lewis that next year are new regulations? He’s talking about McLaren like they will be the fastest car next year. Funny guy. lol

Mercedes 2026 engine+ McLaren chassis going to be quite, something unless McLaren completely F up

Its a completely different set of aero rules. Where ge matters a lot less. And its doubtful that mclaren will integrate the new pu better than mercedes. Almost no chance at all that mclaren is faster tgan merc next year and we don’t even know for sure who will have the best pu.

I have the feeling that what will matter most will be fuel and battery deployment. Best ICE and chassis/aero will maybe come important as refinements of the whole package.

[ToffeeTyres]

rifrafs2kees
[/quote]

I've always suspected as much. There's a video out there of Fernando saying how the 2007 McLaren had lots of oversteer, and we could see how Hamilton slide those rears on many a occasion.

However, I do also believe that he'd changed his style significantly to cope with the Pirelli cheese tires. The partnership with Charles could be just be the right impetus for reintroduction of oversteery balance into his toolbox.

I'm very interested in how this shapes up but the signs are looking positive.
[/quote]

I agree, with the Pirelli tyres he did have to change his style a bit but has come to deal well with preserving them, just a shame these tyres since Pirelli came in drivers can no longer push like they used to, plus there’s the weight of these cars, the ‘07-‘08 cars were a lot smaller lighter and extremely nimble compared to today’s cars getting the right balance these days is no doubt harder and sliding the cars today is like a tank lol. I do agree if they can manage to get the snap out of the design and more of a predictable oversteer both Charles and Lewis will be a lot happier. It’s a shame the new regs to me have gone the wrong way in car design but fingers crossed Ferrari nail it.

Edit. Failed on the quote in reply to @ rifrafs2kees

[bluechris]

Guys Aero is KING, if you expect MB to have the same engine advantage like the previous era where even with a tractor could had win races then you are mistaken. All the later years MB is nowhere so how you expect that suddenly they will be Aero TopDogs is out of my mind.
Anyway, back to Ferrari