2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[euv2]

The biggest takeaway from the race for me was still the McLarens unbelievable tyre management, the tyre just never falls out of the working windows, it's like magic. Rain? no problem the tyres are hot enough to provide solid grip, drying conditions on inters? no problem the tyre doesn't overheat and degrade and we already know how exceptional they are in hot conditions. The only time the other teams are a match is during cool conditions, otherwise the MCL mostly smashes the competition on utilising tyres.

It's kind of baffling that the opposing teams haven't got a clue about what they are doing with their tyres, surely, they've must've tried paying good money for the engineers working on this. At this point I'm expecting their tyre management to carry over into next years cars.

They have some kind of mechanical feedback loop (without moving devices, based on expansion/contraction of materials with low specific heat present in the 'air pathways') such that the hot air path from caliper/brakes to wheel rim 'opens up a lot' in cold conditions and 'closes down to a trickle' in hot conditions. In other words, their 'trick', according to my guess, is a purely mechanical control system without external input, that can control the heat exchanged between brakes and wheel rim, using the temperature of the wheel like the gate voltage of a transistor.

Yeah, a feedback loop definitely seems most plausible but the materials needed for this sort of expansion/contraction and how much at which temperature ranges is definitely a bit of wizardry from MCL. I wonder how much temperate regulation their system allows them, like is 5°C enough for this level of tyre control or is it something more like 10-15°C. It looks like they always try to maintain the tyre in peak operating window, also RBR's solution seems to have been delayed now, perhaps still looking for answers.

[avantman]

I am confused. We've been told for 2 years now that the car has a very strong front end that other drivers can't live with.

Now it has so much understeer that it needs a Monza spec rear wing to balance.

If true, can we stop the bs narratives narrative about the car development only focusing on Max?

And... What is Tsunodas issue now then? Other than proving Horner and Marko correct for not promoting him.

And seriously, how long is Wache going to hang on to his job?

That's just a narrative , agenda at this point pushed by the same suspects and British media. They keep re-quoting Albon's interview from few years back where he was reffering to RBR 2019 and 2020 cars - the only cars he had an opportunity to drive. Previous generation RBR cars were very very different and it was very easy to see how oversteery and 'on the nose' they've been on most occasions. From 2022 onwards next gen cars have never been like that. But how could anyone explain then why can Max be head and shoulders above his teammates, all of them, if not for a car being very sharp, oversteery and 'on the nose'? You would then have to admit the guy is a genius we haven't seen since Senna and Schumacher, which is of course very painful thing to do naturally.

Truly knowledgeable observers see things very differently. I really liked Rosberg's comments made during FP session in Barcelona this year, where he was trackside expert at Sky. He explained everything very well, talking on how much understeer Max had in that car, which he could only tame it by mechanical compomises that makes car very on the edge, which Max had to balance on all the time. Nico sounded very, very impressed watching Max from the side of the track. If only someone could find that piece and put it here.
It was the same at Suzuka and China this year - massive very noticeable understeer in slow and medium speed corners that anyone could see; and even through the high speed esses at Suzuka even with much lower DF setup relative to Mclaren. Austria....pretty much everywhere, even Jeddah.
If people actually listen to Lawson and Tsunoda comments, instead of listening to all the tools talking about how oversteery RBR car is, none of them blamed loose rear or oversteer, I think once. It was either understeer or very small overational window that car has which they find very hard (or barely possible for them) to hit.
If these new gen RBR cars have ever been built for Max, they failed miserably. All of them came out of the factory very understeery.

[Bill]

I am confused. We've been told for 2 years now that the car has a very strong front end that other drivers can't live with.

Now it has so much understeer that it needs a Monza spec rear wing to balance.

If true, can we stop the bs narratives narrative about the car development only focusing on Max?

And... What is Tsunodas issue now then? Other than proving Horner and Marko correct for not promoting him.

And seriously, how long is Wache going to hang on to his job?

That's just a narrative , agenda at this point pushed by the same suspects and British media. They keep re-quoting Albon's interview from few years back where he was reffering to RBR 2019 and 2020 cars - the only cars he had an opportunity to drive. Previous generation RBR cars were very very different and it was very easy to see how oversteery and 'on the nose' they've been on most occasions. From 2022 onwards next gen cars have never been like that. But how could anyone explain then why can Max be head and shoulders above his teammates, all of them, if not for a car being very sharp, oversteery and 'on the nose'? You would then have to admit the guy is a genius we haven't seen since Senna and Schumacher, which is of course very painful thing to do naturally.

Truly knowledgeable observers see things very differently. I really liked Rosberg's comments made during FP session in Barcelona this year, where he was trackside expert at Sky. He explained everything very well, talking on how much understeer Max had in that car, which he could only tame it by mechanical compomises that makes car very on the edge, which Max had to balance on all the time. Nico sounded very, very impressed watching Max from the side of the track. If only someone could find that piece and put it here.
It was the same at Suzuka and China this year - massive very noticeable understeer in slow and medium speed corners that anyone could see; and even through the high speed esses at Suzuka even with much lower DF setup relative to Mclaren. Austria....pretty much everywhere, even Jeddah.
If people actually listen to Lawson and Tsunoda comments, instead of listening to all the tools talking about how oversteery RBR car is, none of them blamed loose rear or oversteer, I think once. It was either understeer or very small overational window that car has which they find very hard (or barely possible for them) to hit.
If these new gen RBR cars have ever been built for Max, they failed miserably. All of them came out of the factory very understeery.

people are confusing ground effect cars with car of the past which have much more development window

[Waz]

Wache has said himself that they focus on the front end. I personally found it strange, because I have read plenty on here in the car threads about ground effect being more inclined to understeer because of where the Centre of Pressure is, and that there is limited area to move it forward.

I know a lot is made about Newey leaving, but if you look closer, the cars have had quite a different characteristic since Dan Fallows left. I genuinely believe he was hamstrung at Aston Martin with the Mercedes wind tunnel that AM only had access to on weekends.

It would be good to get him back into the Technical team again to reverse the skills drain.

[Bill]

f1 is about downforce the mclaren has a little drag but good downforce which ultimately make them quick .the redbull of past has good downforce draggy but were quick.

[organic]

Very nuanced bill

[TeamKoolGreen]

Max will take a year off sometime between now and the next 3-5 years. Almost guaranteed.

He recently ruled out a sabbatical in an interview though

Yep last thing I see it Max taking a year off.

I think retiring when the current contract ends his a very real possibility I can see him wanting to do some GT racing more full time while he is still young enough to, he's too much a racing but to take a year off now

His sabbatical talk was about taking a year off from F1. Not a year off from all forms racing.

Especially with these cringy 50% Formula Formula E cars coming up

[Watto]

He recently ruled out a sabbatical in an interview though

Yep last thing I see it Max taking a year off.

I think retiring when the current contract ends his a very real possibility I can see him wanting to do some GT racing more full time while he is still young enough to, he's too much a racing but to take a year off now

His sabbatical talk was about taking a year off from F1. Not a year off from all forms racing.

Especially with these cringy 50% Formula Formula E cars coming up

My point too was I can see Max wanting to do some GT racing where he has his own team before he's past his prime that time scale is 3-5 years don't know it matters that much the direction F1 is heading. I think his interest in other categories I pretty genuine, and I think he would want to have a serious look at it if he headed that way. I think if he feels he has had enough of F1 and done all he can do it will be retire from F1 and race elsewhere without any real intention of moving back. There are plenty of other catagories I think he could go into

[vorticism]

Does anyone have a list of the managers who left RBR over the past couple seasons? Maybe we'll never know the full story of what happened within RBR but it seems odd that so many would leave while the team was winning. A contest of egos that got out of hand? It seems the exodus has had the unfortunate side effect of throwing the other ~thousand teammates within RBR under the bus.

Not sure if Newey will strike gold again in 2026 in what will be his first (!) season with AMR. The 2026 regs book is very specific, more than ever. Then again it's a simultaneous major engine & aero change this time* so who knows.

*Not sure when this happened last. Maybe 1995 was the closest equivalent. 3.5 to 3.0 L, ~800 hp reduced to ~700 hp, and big changes to diffuser (39" to 12" wide), wings, floor specs (+2" ride height, addition of step plane), big DF reduction. That said, Benetton did win both '94 and '95.

[Paa]

Many high level employees left Red Bill over past years, but this is kind of normal I guess.

What is strange to me is a complete lack of high-level "brain import". Horner used to be really good manager in a sense of putting together a top-level team.
But it seems that there are no high level newcomers anymore. They try to replace everybody internally.

Getting people from other teams have so many advantages for so many reasons, they should do it from time to time,.even if all is good, but they are not really doing it.

I wonder why. Is it because of the lack of intent from Red Bull? Or there is will,.but people don't want to go there for whatever reason?

I can only suspect,.that it is Horner trying to consolidate his position within the team by promoting his men internally, I guess to make them loyal? Or to handle low morale/discontent within the team.

But it is clearly not enough.

[kurtj]

Many high level employees left Red Bill over past years, but this is kind of normal I guess.

What is strange to me is a complete lack of high-level "brain import". Horner used to be really good manager in a sense of putting together a top-level team.
But it seems that there are no high level newcomers anymore. They try to replace everybody internally.

Getting people from other teams have so many advantages for so many reasons, they should do it from time to time,.even if all is good, but they are not really doing it.

I wonder why. Is it because of the lack of intent from Red Bull? Or there is will,.but people don't want to go there for whatever reason?

I can only suspect,.that it is Horner trying to consolidate his position within the team by promoting his men internally, I guess to make them loyal? Or to handle low morale/discontent within the team.

But it is clearly not enough.

When was the last time Red Bull hired top management or big names from outside? 2005 when they put together the team. In the last 20 years, they have promoted people from within and so many people left since. McLaren has gone through this and Mercedes too. It's very natural. Horner needs no consolidation. Yoovidhya trusts him and he is going nowhere. This team has to evolve around him and those birds that have outgrown the nest, have to fly out. No amount of fan resentment is going to change that. It's largely a private company with Yoovidhya holding majority. Success goes around in circles and at some point, it would return to Red Bull again, with or without some of the team members remaining or the driver remaining.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Many high level employees left Red Bill over past years, but this is kind of normal I guess.

What is strange to me is a complete lack of high-level "brain import". Horner used to be really good manager in a sense of putting together a top-level team.
But it seems that there are no high level newcomers anymore. They try to replace everybody internally.

Getting people from other teams have so many advantages for so many reasons, they should do it from time to time,.even if all is good, but they are not really doing it.

I wonder why. Is it because of the lack of intent from Red Bull? Or there is will,.but people don't want to go there for whatever reason?

I can only suspect,.that it is Horner trying to consolidate his position within the team by promoting his men internally, I guess to make them loyal? Or to handle low morale/discontent within the team.

But it is clearly not enough.

It is the circle every top team goes through. They poach from other teams on the way up. And get poached when they plateau. The lower teams are willing to pay a premium to get employees to move. The exact same thing happened to Mercedes HPP. Here is just some of the people that RBPT got from Mercedes HPP:

Ben Hodgkinson:
Joined Red Bull Powertrains as Technical Director, previously Head of Mechanical Engineering at Mercedes HPP.

Steve Blewett:
Appointed Production Director, previously Head of Manufacturing at Mercedes HPP.

Omid Mostaghimi:
Joined as Head of Powertrains Electronics and ERS, previously the F1 electronics team leader at Mercedes.

Pip Clode:
Appointed Head of Mechanical Design ERS, previously the F1 Power Unit Concept Team Leader at Mercedes.

Steve Brodie:
Joined as Group Leader ICE Operations, previously Trackside and Final Inspection Manager at Mercedes.

Anton Mayo:
Head of power unit design for ICE, also previously with Mercedes.

Multiple other staff:
Red Bull has reportedly hired over 200 staff from Mercedes in total.

[Juzh]

I know the car was on fent in slippery conditions but looking at Max's driving on his outlap on mediums on a damp track is certainly not to his usual standard. Went off 3 times in one lap, losing like 8s to stroll and needed 15 laps to shake off gasly finally.

Other than that, the only way to have good pace with this setup was only if track was completely dry. You have to minimise time spent in low speed corners as much as possible and stay on full throttle for as long as possible to carry the most straight line speed advantage from the wing. Any other scenario and sauber is faster than RB21 (for real).

[basti313]

I wonder why they went for this option with the clear problem of rain in the forecast.

[Paa]

I don't think this was a gamble for qualy and/or dry race.
Simply this is how they could get the balance right and that's it.