2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[basti313]

In hindsight, ALO/team should have waited one more lap there, as the big rain came, like VER.

Well, this is something I did not understand at all yesterday. The times were far off the indicated crossover. Still people went for slicks and everyone lost time as it was much too wet in the last sector. Plus the pit exit...nearly everyone lost several seconds.

In a time, where all the rookie pack (plus Stroll and Tsu) can not drive in the wet...just go a bit longer and aim for SC...

To add for yesterday:
"Terrible race, as usual" was the team radio from ALO after the race. Adrenaline, disappointment, etc., but sometimes it's better to say nothing. Especially after having a great race (driver and tactics) a week before.

I think there is more behind. I fear that this will not go on for long. He is hanging in there for next season, but that is a big gamble. I do not think Honda will get it right, nor do I think Newey can turn everything around in one year....plus the bad trackside...

[SSJ4]

@tyreslip

My bad, I thought you were referring to yesterday.

When I remember correctly, can't find the team radios by now from Monaco, ALO discussed for quite a while there with his engineer what tyre to put on. Mainly decided of the duration of the rain. They thought it will be short and therefore the team decided that the medium is the right one. ALO expressed before his concern, if I remember correctly, that new rubber will be useful being on an old hard. STR was somewhere at the back as usual and could gamble like yesterday. But track position is everything in Monaco, so I don't blame neither the team nor the driver there to be hesitantly. In hindsight, ALO/team should have waited one more lap there, as the big rain came, like VER.

If anything was wrong yesterday from the team, it was the soft tyre for STR in the last stint, dead tyres, and that they should have waited for RUS as the guinea pig, while discussing with ALO the switch. Being super brave, switching from inters to slicks as the first one is hardly ever a good idea.


To add for yesterday:
"Terrible race, as usual" was the team radio from ALO after the race. Adrenaline, disappointment, etc., but sometimes it's better to say nothing. Especially after having a great race (driver and tactics) a week before.

Saying it’s a terrible race as opposed to saying something like this

[diffuser]

In hindsight, ALO/team should have waited one more lap there, as the big rain came, like VER.

Well, this is something I did not understand at all yesterday. The times were far off the indicated crossover. Still people went for slicks and everyone lost time as it was much too wet in the last sector. Plus the pit exit...nearly everyone lost several seconds.

In a time, where all the rookie pack (plus Stroll and Tsu) can not drive in the wet...just go a bit longer and aim for SC...

To add for yesterday:
"Terrible race, as usual" was the team radio from ALO after the race. Adrenaline, disappointment, etc., but sometimes it's better to say nothing. Especially after having a great race (driver and tactics) a week before.

I think there is more behind. I fear that this will not go on for long. He is hanging in there for next season, but that is a big gamble. I do not think Honda will get it right, nor do I think Newey can turn everything around in one year....plus the bad trackside...

The team did suggest it first but Alonso agreed on the timing of the switch to slicks.

When Alonso came out on the slicks and started to struggle, my first reaction was that Alonso's complaining was being interpreted as him asking for a more aggressive strategy.

[basti313]

The team did suggest it first but Alonso agreed on the timing of the switch to slicks.

Well, that is his job then. They can say "timing shows you need to box" or they can ask him. If they ask, he needs to say if slicks are good.

When Alonso came out on the slicks and started to struggle, my first reaction was that Alonso's complaining was being interpreted as him asking for a more aggressive strategy.

Dunno...it is slapstick:
- The whole front of the field was waiting for Stroll going on Slicks and binning it into the wall.
- Aston was smart and did not put Stroll on Slicks...

[SSJ4]

They’re saying in Spain that for spa. There’s another component that will complete the silverstone package. Obviously take it with a pinch of salt. I know parts are expected which will most likely be low downforce circuit specific stuff

[-wkst-]

Saying it’s a terrible race as opposed to saying something like this

Both comments are shameful imo, especially at the home GP of the team (despite adrenaline and stuff like that). Nothing to boost the morale of the team members who worked full steam to get the updates ready, it was a double-points finish after all (how many times this happend this year?).

Difference is that one is the son of the co-owner and will do whatever he likes, as long as his dad has the voting power.

[proteus]

Saying it’s a terrible race as opposed to saying something like this

Both comments are shameful imo, especially at the home GP of the team (despite adrenaline and stuff like that). Nothing to boost the morale of the team members who worked full steam to get the updates ready, it was a double-points finish after all (how many times this happend this year?).

Difference is that one is the son of the co-owner and will do whatever he likes, as long as his dad has the voting power.

To be honest Alonso is not sparing them either lately. Neweys magic cant come quick enough.

[f1universe]

@tyreslip

My bad, I thought you were referring to yesterday.

When I remember correctly, can't find the team radios by now from Monaco, ALO discussed for quite a while there with his engineer what tyre to put on. Mainly decided of the duration of the rain. They thought it will be short and therefore the team decided that the medium is the right one. ALO expressed before his concern, if I remember correctly, that new rubber will be useful being on an old hard. STR was somewhere at the back as usual and could gamble like yesterday. But track position is everything in Monaco, so I don't blame neither the team nor the driver there to be hesitantly. In hindsight, ALO/team should have waited one more lap there, as the big rain came, like VER.

If anything was wrong yesterday from the team, it was the soft tyre for STR in the last stint, dead tyres, and that they should have waited for RUS as the guinea pig, while discussing with ALO the switch. Being super brave, switching from inters to slicks as the first one is hardly ever a good idea.


To add for yesterday:
"Terrible race, as usual" was the team radio from ALO after the race. Adrenaline, disappointment, etc., but sometimes it's better to say nothing. Especially after having a great race (driver and tactics) a week before.

Saying it’s a terrible race as opposed to saying something like this

What is he talking about? The car is not that bad. Spoiled brat.

[HellFish]

[diffuser]

Alo says on post race interview that the other side of the box usually gets the strategy right. He also says that, given the team had the information of Str car, he would like that info to be shared to him since they're the same team. And several other spicy things.

Guys, I don't know, for me that sentences are very representative. Maybe they're because of the frustration of such an unlucky race, but he seemed calmed chatting with DLR, Melissa and Schlaffer.

Problem with that is he's speaking BEFORE he has had a chance to look at the data. It's based just on what he's seen from the cockpit, which is limited.

[diffuser]

In hindsight, ALO/team should have waited one more lap there, as the big rain came, like VER.

Well, this is something I did not understand at all yesterday. The times were far off the indicated crossover. Still people went for slicks and everyone lost time as it was much too wet in the last sector. Plus the pit exit...nearly everyone lost several seconds.

In a time, where all the rookie pack (plus Stroll and Tsu) can not drive in the wet...just go a bit longer and aim for SC...

To add for yesterday:
"Terrible race, as usual" was the team radio from ALO after the race. Adrenaline, disappointment, etc., but sometimes it's better to say nothing. Especially after having a great race (driver and tactics) a week before.

I think there is more behind. I fear that this will not go on for long. He is hanging in there for next season, but that is a big gamble. I do not think Honda will get it right, nor do I think Newey can turn everything around in one year....plus the bad trackside...

Depends on what your definition of "Get it right" is... I think the odds are high that they are in the top 3 PUs. That kind of gives them a 30% chance at being the best PU next year. That also gives Honda about a 70% chance of not being the best PU.

There are what 5 Manufactures for next year ?

Honda, RBR, Merc, Audi and Ferrari? Cadillac will not be for another year ...and anyways, the odds are stacked against Cadillac. The odds are stacked against Audi and RBR but Audi less so. I'd say from the bottom it would be Cadillac, RBR then Audi.

You got to figure that the 3 teams that are in the PU manufacturing this year have an edge. Just because the 4 cylinder ICE is pretty much the same. If anyone knows how to improve the ICE, it is the 3 with the most experience. They also have alot of experience with all the KERs/software stuff. So odds wise that gives them the edge.

Note - I'm saying "odds are" cause you can never tell till they are on the track.

[diffuser]

it was a race of many "what ifs"

Frustration for many of us is logical as it is logical for Alonso himself to question some decisions.

My opinion is that AMR took a gamble with Stroll putting him on slicks that just paid out. It was a gamble because when you know rain is coming hard in a few laps, you have to time your in lap for inters perfectly. If it rains suddenly and heavily (as it did today) and catches you with slicks in the wrong part of the circuit it can put you out of the race. It was a risk that weren’t comfortable to take with Alonso and a risk that usually take with the car that has less to lose.

From the moment that they put stroll on slicks and knowing that rain is coming soon, it was also easy to assume that Stroll was going to pit first for inters as it was the driver with the biggest risk to be caught in heavy rain with slicks.

What I can not understand is why they don’t communicate with Alonso his options. They always ask him, what he feels like doing, or what he thinks, but they didn’t give him options today. Before the rain started coming heavily, they were discussing about possible scenarios and Alonso told them the obvious. He told them that they are the ones that know what the weather is going to do, and that they have all the weather data and the data of others running with slicks etc. It was like telling them, look guys you have all the data, decide the best strategy, and tell me. It’s not the first time Alonso has to point out the obvious to the team in changing conditions like today.

When rain started coming down heavily, again they where completely undecided. They kept asking Alonso if he can keep the car in the track or not with those warn inters, or what he thinks they should do. At some point Alonso did tell them to box when he was asked and they boxed.

And there is where AMR is at fault. When you have changing conditions like today, in a track that you have both multiple slick runners and inter runners they should have the last call for when to pit, or at least provide your drivers with strategy options to choose from.
I think AMR lacks a bit on that department.

Today it was just unfortunate for Alonso how things played out.

The race left us with 2 what ifs. What if Alonso had taken the gamble with slicks early on like stroll, and 2nd what if Alonso had putted his mediums 2 laps later than he did, because for me if he had putted the mediums just 2 laps later, the outcome I think would be quite different for him.
Anyway, it is, what it is.

It was never an option to pit Alonso early on and put him on slicks. It would be suicide for Alonso to give up 8 positions to put on slicks. 99 times out of 100, that's the wrong play. Who in their right mind would have pitted from Alonso from 6th to come out 14th?

Like I said, it was only an option for Lance because AntMan was on slicks and was close to 30 seconds behind Lance. This allowed Lance to pit, still come out ahead of Antman, in clean air and therfore not have to pass anyone.

Stroll pitted under VSC and the moment he pitted was 15.8s behind the leader in 11th position.
(Alonso was 8.3s behind the leader in 6th at that time)

Stroll came out of the pits, 28.2s behind the leader in 12th position while the race was still under VSC.
He lost approximately 12.4s to the leader while pitting under VSC.

Now if we add those 12.4s to ALO 8.3s gap to the leader, ALO would have come out more or less around 20.7s behind the leader. That would have putted him very very comfortably in the same gap/slot Stroll ended up, at 12th position, 3,5s behind Ocon and he would have been at an even better position because he would have been 7-8 seconds closer to the leader compare to where Stroll came out.

Now 3 laps later Stroll came in for inters while he was just 17.8s from the leader (piastri now) at 8th position having gained massively in his 3 laps on soft. Especially in S2 he was gaining enormously on ALL the inters runners.

After (the leader) PIA and VES at 2nd place pitted for fresh inters, VES at second place was 9s from the lead and stroll was 15s from the lead.

I don't want to shock you but all my calculations/emulations show me, that if Alonso was given Strolls exact strategy and the exact same pit stop timings, after everybody was pitted for inters, ALO would have been running at 2nd place behind PIA and in front of VES.

of course ALO presence in that scenario probably would have triggered VES and NOR to think about how to cover ALO strategy, and maybe, who knows we had a completely different sequence of events.

I urge everyone to run the numbers on live timing to verify what i am saying.

So yea, it was pretty much an option for ALO also to pit for slicks, but as i have stated in my previous post, it was a riskier option for Alonso because he had more to lose if they didn't manage to get the pitstops timings correctly.

Kudos to them though because regarding Stroll they did manage to execute a very difficult (to get it 100% right) strategy, with perfection.

[diffuser]

it was a race of many "what ifs"

Frustration for many of us is logical as it is logical for Alonso himself to question some decisions.

My opinion is that AMR took a gamble with Stroll putting him on slicks that just paid out. It was a gamble because when you know rain is coming hard in a few laps, you have to time your in lap for inters perfectly. If it rains suddenly and heavily (as it did today) and catches you with slicks in the wrong part of the circuit it can put you out of the race. It was a risk that weren’t comfortable to take with Alonso and a risk that usually take with the car that has less to lose.

From the moment that they put stroll on slicks and knowing that rain is coming soon, it was also easy to assume that Stroll was going to pit first for inters as it was the driver with the biggest risk to be caught in heavy rain with slicks.

What I can not understand is why they don’t communicate with Alonso his options. They always ask him, what he feels like doing, or what he thinks, but they didn’t give him options today. Before the rain started coming heavily, they were discussing about possible scenarios and Alonso told them the obvious. He told them that they are the ones that know what the weather is going to do, and that they have all the weather data and the data of others running with slicks etc. It was like telling them, look guys you have all the data, decide the best strategy, and tell me. It’s not the first time Alonso has to point out the obvious to the team in changing conditions like today.

When rain started coming down heavily, again they where completely undecided. They kept asking Alonso if he can keep the car in the track or not with those warn inters, or what he thinks they should do. At some point Alonso did tell them to box when he was asked and they boxed.

And there is where AMR is at fault. When you have changing conditions like today, in a track that you have both multiple slick runners and inter runners they should have the last call for when to pit, or at least provide your drivers with strategy options to choose from.
I think AMR lacks a bit on that department.

Today it was just unfortunate for Alonso how things played out.

The race left us with 2 what ifs. What if Alonso had taken the gamble with slicks early on like stroll, and 2nd what if Alonso had putted his mediums 2 laps later than he did, because for me if he had putted the mediums just 2 laps later, the outcome I think would be quite different for him.
Anyway, it is, what it is.

It was never an option to pit Alonso early on and put him on slicks. It would be suicide for Alonso to give up 8 positions to put on slicks. 99 times out of 100, that's the wrong play. Who in their right mind would have pitted from Alonso from 6th to come out 14th?

Like I said, it was only an option for Lance because AntMan was on slicks and was close to 30 seconds behind Lance. This allowed Lance to pit, still come out ahead of Antman, in clean air and therfore not have to pass anyone.

Stroll pitted under VSC and the moment he pitted was 15.8s behind the leader in 11th position.
(Alonso was 8.3s behind the leader in 6th at that time)

Stroll came out of the pits, 28.2s behind the leader in 12th position while the race was still under VSC.
He lost approximately 12.4s to the leader while pitting under VSC.

Now if we add those 12.4s to ALO 8.3s gap to the leader, ALO would have come out more or less around 20.7s behind the leader. That would have putted him very very comfortably in the same gap/slot Stroll ended up, at 12th position, 3,5s behind Ocon and he would have been at an even better position because he would have been 7-8 seconds closer to the leader compare to where Stroll came out.

Now 3 laps later Stroll came in for inters while he was just 17.8s from the leader (piastri now) at 8th position having gained massively in his 3 laps on soft. Especially in S2 he was gaining enormously on ALL the inters runners.

After (the leader) PIA and VES at 2nd place pitted for fresh inters, VES at second place was 9s from the lead and stroll was 15s from the lead.

I don't want to shock you but all my calculations/emulations show me, that if Alonso was given Strolls exact strategy and the exact same pit stop timings, after everybody was pitted for inters, ALO would have been running at 2nd place behind PIA and in front of VES.

of course ALO presence in that scenario probably would have triggered VES and NOR to think about how to cover ALO strategy, and maybe, who knows we had a completely different sequence of events.

I urge everyone to run the numbers on live timing to verify what i am saying.

So yea, it was pretty much an option for ALO also to pit for slicks, but as i have stated in my previous post, it was a riskier option for Alonso because he had more to lose if they didn't manage to get the pitstops timings correctly.

Kudos to them though because regarding Stroll they did manage to execute a very difficult (to get it 100% right) strategy, with perfection.

There is evidence with Hulk of what would happen if they pitted early, we don't need your calculations. The point isn't "was it possible"?. The question how do you know in advance how it's gonna play out?
What if it doesn't rain? What if there is no safety car? What if the VSR last another 3 laps? What if the rain started 3 laps before? What if someone spins, goes off, and the race red flagged? Really nice for you to be sitting here on Monday morning with the fact that it did rain when it rained. It has happened often before at Silverstone where they thought it would rain and it didn't or they thought it would rain harder and it didn't. Then you're stuck both Stroll and Alonso sitting out of the points. If you don't understand that F1 teams take on alot of risk when they're out of the points and do the opposite when in the points. I'm not sure what to tell you.

Both Mercs and LeClerc got it wrong and they finished behind Alonso. On that first stop, of the top 9 cars, they all did the same thing except Hulk. So they all got it wrong, in your opinion. The strategy guys have seconds to make decisions.


If you don't understand that F1 teams take on alot of risk only when they're out of the points, I don't know what to tell you. That's just the way it is.

[hollus]

Adding a summary or highlights in English would be nice.

[-wkst-]

There will be one more planned update for the AMR25 in Spa, as Cowell confirmed in the press conference after the race. Seems likely that it was just not ready for Silverstone and part of the update programme introduced there.