2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Matt-A]

If Max hasn't signed a contract with Merc, Ferrari or McLaren already then I think he is stuck.

He would be desperate to leave now and therefore no longer able to name his price. He might even have to take a mighty pay cut to escape the mess that RB is now in and that may prove too unpalatable.

[Matt2725]

I just don't understand this decision at all. Yes team is not doing well atm (hell, they can't be always winning... Toto is still at Mercedes and they are struggling since 2022). The only logical think behind this is that Max stays. But even so, how long. Maybe a year? what (and this is big possibility) if the flop with PU? They will lose Max, No Horner... Team is facing relegating to midfield regulary.....

Was Newey in fight with Horner? I don't recall exactly reasoning behind his leaving.. If his leaving was solely because of Horner, then why they didn't fire him last year. This year they are losing key staff member and they lost key engineer..

I don't understand this at all.

The only way this makes any sense, is that Raymond Vermeulen has leveraged the idea of Max moving to Mercedes as a means of getting Horner ejected from the team once and for all.
This is the obvious culmination of a power struggle which began in 2023 following the death of Dietrich Mateschitz, and really came to a head in early 2024 with the Whatsapp "leak" which many attributed to the Verstappen camp or someone close to.

This gives them the keys to the empire in terms of the Motorsports side of things. I won't be surprised to see the team renamed Verstappen Red Bull Racing in the future.

Even so, let's not also forget that this actually puts Max in a worse position if he's trying to leave now. He would look like he's trying to abandon a sinking ship and he has way less leverage for negotiation.

[Watto]

It could be. I see the Mercedes interest and the clause as potential leverage for Max to shape the team the way he wants and still remain an undisputed star at RB, I don't think we'll see him leave now, but you never know.

I lean slightly more towards this but think it could easily be too Max has gone on top of losing, Newey, Wheatley, Marshall and a few others in very recent times management might have just decided if Max was to go them maybe its best they start from scratch with all that's going on. Giving that much control to a driver - as good as I think Max is too can easily be fought with danger he decides in a few years he's done and whoever takes over struggle...

I can't see the team waiting for Max to go to take action. Max is so plugged into the team I'd be surprised if they didn't know what is happening and if he didn't keep them up to date. My feeling is if they pulled the trigger it is because they think it will keep Max at the team.

Are they worried Max might be the only guy who can drive the 26 car? I would be. The potential consequences of this team if Max were to leave are extreme.

Max also brings pressure with concerns over their technical teams - Newey said in an interview when be joined AM the loss in senior people at RBR was evident I think he hinted at he disagreed in the direction they were going, but said the loss of senior staff rook its toll. Perhaps they could have seen the issues that were coming, or identified them earlier, Horner/RBR said they eventually identified where things started to go wrong - incidentally it coincided with when Checcos form against Max started to really drop off.

But too my point if they struggle with the car design next year and/or the engine takes some time to sort out having Max there will only heap the pressure on - if there is a lesser known driver there or someone younger, they probably get a little more leeway in sorting it all out.

I think Max is the best driver on the grid though not without fault, I think there are a few not that far behind Oscar has shown a ton of improvement, George this year has come on well. Lando is driving very well.

[Wouter]

Horner was this morning for the last time at the factory. He was of course very emotional.

[AeroDynamic]

Horner was this morning for the last time at the factory. He was of course very emotional.

I’m pretty sure this comes as a shock to many. A few years back there were calls for a rival tp to step down after a couple of unsuccessful seasons. I thought that was dumb and irrational and if this humiliating firing of Horner isn’t to secure max, but a consequence for losing him (final straw) then that really is the end of an era for the team.

their team principal was always a strength until the power vacuum left behind after Mateschitz passing exposed him in ways no one predicted; power greed, and abuse of power over the female colleague destroyed the team, just like Jos said it would. Don’t understand how he started his career knowing the value of Newey which took this team to their heights in 2 regulation cycles, to minimising Newey enough to push him away to another team. Total headloss putting all faith in Pierre Wache.

We’ll never know for sure how much of opportunity (budget cap) versus poor team atmosphere -after the controversy last year engulfed the team- played a role in making the other senior figures leave (Marshall, Wheatley, and more) but it’s a unprecedented collapse. Where does the team go from here? They have no strong people left at the top of their technical team, racing team, pitwall.. except Hannah. And they have Max.

If Max leaves for Mercedes this team is stuck for a long rebuilding period, longer than it already is with Max there (the teams only lightning rod to attract top people again)

[CjC]

Another 2 gone:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/two- ... -red-bull/

The departed list is going to get longer than Alpines and in a shorter timeframe

[Matt-A]

Disaster.

Maybe Max will actually just leave F1 altogether.

[Dee]

I don't know why everyone thinks Horner was and has been core to the success of the team.

Surely it has been Mateschitz (2005)/Marko (2005)/Newey (2006)/Marshall(2006) with Horner (2005) as the CEO

Every single one of these have been attached to the team from the start with Marshall and Newey being the core technical design leads.

It is known that Mateschitz wanted Porsche to buy 50% of RBR with support from Newey, Marshall, Verstappens and Marko. But because of Mateschitz death, Horner acting with more powers in the new power vacuum pulled the deal and went with Ford.

Timeline is thus:

2005 - Mateschitz/Marko/Horner start RBR with Marko in control of driving talent

2006 - Newey/Marshall brought in

Early 2022 - 50% RBR to be sold to Porsche under guidance of Mateschitz. Marko, Newey, Marshall and Verstappen's support this.

Late 2022 - Due to power vacuum due to Mateschitz I'll health, Horner pulls out of the deal in September (Mateschitz dies in October) and signs with Ford, Its also reported that he wants to buy RBPT with the backing of a British consortium. He also poaches engine talent from Mercedes for RBPT. Now he is also in control of driving talent.

2023 - Marshall leaves

2023 to early 2024 - Intervention from Newey/Marko/Verstappens/Austrian RB to get rid of Horner for the doublecross and also wanting to get rid of Marko but Horner gets support from the Thai's. Max then steps in to make sure Marko is not fired.

2024 - Newey leaves, Courtenay leaves, Perez leaves etc

2025 - Horner fired by Austrian RB who I assume have convinced the Thai's to get rid of him due to poor performance, the bad Perez contract signed by Horner who was in charge of the contracts on their side and finally they get the chance to fire him like they wanted to do in early 2024.

[Watto]

(also on Erics twitter just in dutch)

[Big Tea]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

[Dee]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

[Henk_v]

So Max did have exit clauses. Just not about HIS exit...

[Watto]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

To be fair I don't think anyone knows exactly why Newey left other than him and perhaps a few close to him. I've seen a lot speculate either way and neither really has much weight. We've had PR leaks against him but again they can be misleading particularly when they came out was it trying to destabilise Horner? Was it a leak from the Austrian side of RB, Or Newey himself? I see a lot of Newey supporters point to his statement when he left RBR but again its just as likely some good PR about breaking their contract and negotiation of gardening leave to point CH in a good light at the time, seen that kinda thing done before. I can seen plenaty of reason he could have left both with and without Horner

[AeroDynamic]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

To be fair I don't think anyone knows exactly why Newey left other than him and perhaps a few close to him. I've seen a lot speculate either way and neither really has much weight. We've had PR leaks against him but again they can be misleading particularly when they came out was it trying to destabilise Horner? Was it a leak from the Austrian side of RB, Or Newey himself? I see a lot of Newey supporters point to his statement when he left RBR but again its just as likely some good PR about breaking their contract and negotiation of gardening leave to point CH in a good light at the time, seen that kinda thing done before. I can seen plenaty of reason he could have left both with and without Horner

“Adrian Newey, regarded as the greatest designer in F1 history, resigned last year.
The accusations against Horner were a central part of Newey's reasons for leaving, along with his dissatisfaction with the team, which he saw as other staff members trying to claim credit for his innovations.”


When the BBC reports this, I give it weight. Given the fact that Newey’s wife was calling out statements from Horner that were minimising Newey’s role in their success, there’s fire where there’s smoke here.

[Dee]

I see this as the beginning of the end for Red Bull Racing F1. It is mostly Horner who has kept the ship on course, despite what others have sad about him.
There will be a scurry of people waving money wanting just this part or just that part and seemingly no one to tell them to sod off just hands taking what is on offer.
It is too fragmented to be handled in a boardroom of people of differing interest, but many just wanting a quick buck and some fame.
Had Newie stayed as a focus, and some of those recently departed, it may continue, but now I see it as a fire sale

Newey left because of Horner, why is Christian seen as the person who kept the ship on course. He was the one that has led to its downfall.

To be fair I don't think anyone knows exactly why Newey left other than him and perhaps a few close to him. I've seen a lot speculate either way and neither really has much weight. We've had PR leaks against him but again they can be misleading particularly when they came out was it trying to destabilise Horner? Was it a leak from the Austrian side of RB, Or Newey himself? I see a lot of Newey supporters point to his statement when he left RBR but again its just as likely some good PR about breaking their contract and negotiation of gardening leave to point CH in a good light at the time, seen that kinda thing done before. I can seen plenaty of reason he could have left both with and without Horner

But the fact its, Horner stayed and Newey left. If Newey stayed on, you could then say it had nothing to do between them but it must have done. Newey and Horner shared the same PA. Newey knew what was going on between her and Christian. She had to leak the messages via someone..