2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Matt-A]

Perez was actually good business as it goes.

He brought a huge amount of money and a new market. None of the drivers since have brought anything like the same scale of money or market and all of them have underperformed Perez.

Binning Perez was a mistake IMO. But nit nearly as big a mistake as binning Horner.

My prediction: RBR's season will fall apart from here and they will try to sell the team outright to Ford next year. No one will pick up the Verstappen family and they will leave F1 too.

[FNTC]

...No one will pick up the Verstappen family and they will leave F1 too.

Suuure. That does not sound biased at all. Any team will want to get Max. Even with Jos attached.

[Matt-A]

I'm not so sure. Toto Wolff is a very cold businessman who cut his teeth at the cold face of private equity and venture capital. There is no way he would risk the value he has built in the business he owns a significant chunk of on a team that comes with any prospect of those strings being attached. Max on his own to drive a car they build for the whole team and on the terms the team dictate, sure. But not the rest of it. Especially if cit comes out that they were the tipping point for forcing out a Team Principal.

[TeamKoolGreen]

...No one will pick up the Verstappen family and they will leave F1 too.

Suuure. That does not sound biased at all. Any team will want to get Max. Even with Jos attached.

Not true. Mercedes was never interested in Alonso for his toxicity. Which is why he ended up adrift of the top teams

If Jos would pull the kind of stunts he did to get Horner fired , hed do the same anywhere else. But Max could fire his dad and Marko and manage himself. Jos would have to be excluded from the premises and it would have to be in the contract. All Jos knows is conflict. He's insane. I'd know. I have a Dutch dad who's similar.

[selvam_e2002]

...No one will pick up the Verstappen family and they will leave F1 too.

Suuure. That does not sound biased at all. Any team will want to get Max. Even with Jos attached.

Not true. Mercedes was never interested in Alonso for his toxicity. Which is why he ended up adrift of the top teams

If Jos would pull the kind of stunts he did to get Horner fired , hed do the same anywhere else. But Max could fire his dad and Marko and manage himself. Jos would have to be excluded from the premises and it would have to be in the contract. All Jos knows is conflict. He's insane. I'd know. I have a Dutch dad who's similar.

Please don't narrate wrong about Alonso. Just read the history... it is Ron who screwed up things.....

[the EDGE]

My thought on this he Horner situation…

As much as I despise the man, I can’t help but admire what he’s done

But the truth is, people join because of the organisation, but stay because of the boss. Now, if Horner is respected by his staff, then removing him was as big of a mistake as one could make, but if key staff have lost his respect for some reason, then it was correct to move him on

That said, I don’t think Verstappen is a key staff member. As good as he is, him and his family, IMO are destructive figures, for different reasons

Jos… we’ll that goes without saying, Max… well it’s his feedback that has resulted in a car that no one else can drive, and left the team as a one man (driver) band. Max maybe the best F1 driver, ever, in the right car, but there are others who can win championships against him, as we have seen, and are seeing now

And don’t even get me started on Marko. Why RB still have him around, is beyond me

[PierreW]

I think that you have to be a bit naive to think it's about Max or Jos. You don't fire a team principal because the father of your best driver doesn't like him. It does not work that way.

Max is likely gone anyway. Horner is paying the price of letting all the key people responsible for RB success go without replacing them with adequately skilled workers. The fall in quality has been huge. Only Max can hide it a little, but the second driver saga say it all.

RB was the best aero and mechanic team for a long time. They could not control the engine part, but on their car, they were always top level. This year they are at the bottom of the list, even behind their little sister team in the last few races. If you take account the rumors of the RB engine being a big liability for next year, and Horner had a prime role in setting up that project, then RB could be locked into the last places for 2-3 years.

It's not about Max. It's about the trainwreck that the technical team has become.

[PierreW]

Jos… we’ll that goes without saying, Max… well it’s his feedback that has resulted in a car that no one else can drive, and left the team as a one man (driver) band. Max maybe the best F1 driver, ever, in the right car, but there are others who can win championships against him, as we have seen, and are seeing now

Maybe you could make yourself more informed and educated on the matter before posting?

It's well established now that Red Bull team had ignored Max and Newey warnings about the car development path and continued their way. Wache admitted it.

[basti313]

As much as I despise the man, I can’t help but admire what he’s done

But the truth is, people join because of the organisation, but stay because of the boss.

I also thought, "what a manager"...in hindsight I am asking me some questions:
- Who hired Newey? Was it Horner, or Mateschitz and Marko?
- Who hired the tech team, was it Horner or Newey?
- Who hired the operational team? Was it Horner or Wheatley

I am a bit struggling with this. Driver lineup...he mostly screwed up, he was just gifted talents by Marko. Anyone else was mediocre.

Now, if Horner is respected by his staff, then removing him was as big of a mistake as one could make, but if key staff have lost his respect for some reason, then it was correct to move him on

This is what I also think.

Jos… we’ll that goes without saying, Max… well it’s his feedback that has resulted in a car that no one else can drive, and left the team as a one man (driver) band. Max maybe the best F1 driver, ever, in the right car, but there are others who can win championships against him, as we have seen, and are seeing now

And don’t even get me started on Marko. Why RB still have him around, is beyond me

And now comes the rant about everyone you hate?
Jos is simply an a*hole. I do not know why so many people think he has any effect or anything to say.
Marko is still one of the biggest assets in F1. One can hate him, of course...but every team would love to have someone like him. Merc is strongly missing his "brother" Lauda and Alpine even desperately got Briatore...

[Matt-A]

You don't fire a team principal because the father of your best driver doesn't like him. It does not work that way.

Yet they have directed a team where they allow the father of a driver to berate and argue with the Team Principal at a race. How does that work???

The success Red Bull have had under Horner with Max driving has been fantastic. But Horner achieved the same results with Seb. That was arguably more special because he built it from the ground up. So when he had to start again with a rookie he knew what it would take to get Max to the top.

That deserves some respect, humility and gratitude, none of which seem to be on display.

[imShyness]

Marko is still one of the biggest assets in F1.

How would you notice this? What is it such a profile brings to the team? Is it connections? Expertise?

[the EDGE]

Jos… we’ll that goes without saying, Max… well it’s his feedback that has resulted in a car that no one else can drive, and left the team as a one man (driver) band. Max maybe the best F1 driver, ever, in the right car, but there are others who can win championships against him, as we have seen, and are seeing now

Maybe you could make yourself more informed and educated on the matter before posting?

It's well established now that Red Bull team had ignored Max and Newey warnings about the car development path and continued their way. Wache admitted it.

Red Bull’s second driver problem dates all the way back to 2019

Now, maybe all of that has not been down to a car that no one else could drive, but it certainly isn’t a recent thing

[TeamKoolGreen]

I think that you have to be a bit naive to think it's about Max or Jos. You don't fire a team principal because the father of your best driver doesn't like him. It does not work that way.

Max is likely gone anyway. Horner is paying the price of letting all the key people responsible for RB success go without replacing them with adequately skilled workers. The fall in quality has been huge. Only Max can hide it a little, but the second driver saga say it all.

RB was the best aero and mechanic team for a long time. They could not control the engine part, but on their car, they were always top level. This year they are at the bottom of the list, even behind their little sister team in the last few races. If you take account the rumors of the RB engine being a big liability for next year, and Horner had a prime role in setting up that project, then RB could be locked into the last places for 2-3 years.

It's not about Max. It's about the trainwreck that the technical team has become.

You'd have to be totally naive to think this isn't about Jos and Helmut. Newey left because of the honey trap. He said as much. So with no tension from Jos and Helmut, there is no honey trap. And about that , do ppl really think personal lives of F1 people is squeaky clean ? It's the exact opposite.

They were trying to push Horner out at the peak of Red Bulls powers. The scandal happend in February 2024. Red Bull won 4 of the first 5 races when the season started.

This was also when it was exposed that Helmut Marko had secretly tied himself to Max's contract that nobody knew about.

Marko and Jos destroyed the team. But the moral of the story is that honey traps work. Because they got what they wanted and everyone seems to think Horner destroyed the team.

And anyone who doesn't think the team is destroyed for the long term doesn't know much about F1.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Horner made sure not to burn any bridges with his resignation speech. Sky had cameras at the Red Bull HQ on the last day. There were employees in tears.

Are all these employees going to be pulling in the same direction after their leader got dragged out to the back and shot ? And replaced by an empty suit in Laurent Mekies? Who's there to do Helmut Marko and Jos Verstappens bidding ? Maybe this is where the dopey idea of making Seb the TP is coming from.

If Horner sets up shop down the road in Enstone , Red Bull are hooped.

[Watto]

Jos… we’ll that goes without saying, Max… well it’s his feedback that has resulted in a car that no one else can drive, and left the team as a one man (driver) band. Max maybe the best F1 driver, ever, in the right car, but there are others who can win championships against him, as we have seen, and are seeing now

Maybe you could make yourself more informed and educated on the matter before posting?

It's well established now that Red Bull team had ignored Max and Newey warnings about the car development path and continued their way. Wache admitted it.

Red Bull’s second driver problem dates all the way back to 2019

Now, maybe all of that has not been down to a car that no one else could drive, but it certainly isn’t a recent thing

I am not sure you can attribute that to Max's feedback though unless you know what his feedback was, Mercedes ignored Hamilton because on paper they could make the car faster, and it didn't go well.

Perez was okay with the Red Bull for a few years 20,22,23 he was in the top few drivers, 24 he fell right off obviously Horner did say last year they looked through the data and identified an issue where Perez started to drop off the issues really began.

I think you could argue Max's talent probably hid the issues, but who know if Max continued to push that direction or if the car kept going quicker and they just didn't pay attention to it - from memory Horner said the issue game to an update in 2023.

Newey said the loss of experienced engineers hurt in its development I think probably pointing out the signs were all there in the data but ignored because the car kept going quicker.

Was some of this Horners fault? I tend to think some of it was I think he could have easily directed engineers to look at what Perez was struggling more. Bit like Stella with McLaren and Lando.