2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[deadhead]

I’m not buying the need for a narrow operating window as an requirement for a fast car…

The current WCC leading car has a wide operating window and is certainly not slow.

[Watto]

But under Dietrich the were almost a privateer team there was no board controlling them no corporate interests looking at the money spend on the investment and returns etc - I know Newey commented that was something he liked you didn't really have to convince him too much to upgrade facilities if it would improve the team

Initially, Red Bull were pretty brash in how they went about things, very built on their sort of fun and adrenaline-fueled brand values. This wasn't just in the PR world, they really did run their team in a looser way, and they were backed by big bucks. It's exactly what got them to offer Newey the freedom to build the technical side of the team to his liking, when most other teams would have been too rigid and established to do so, or simply lacked the resources to make it meaningful.

But the big spending and 'corporate-free' attitudes would not have lasted super long if the success wasn't there. If they weren't winning, eventually RB higher ups would absolutely have stepped in and started questioning their big investment into the sport as a constructor. And it wouldn't have taken until Dietrich's death or anything, this would have likely happened way, way earlier. Without Newey, they might well have been out of the sport by like 2015. Obviously we cant know what they'd have done without him, but it almost assuredly would have never been anything like what they did ultimately achieve.

Newey was always their golden goose.

Not too much to disagree with here , the success did allow them to justify it. But I think particularly early on in the setup phase it was a huge plus that then it was almost a pet project for Dietrich and who knows how things would have panned out without Newey.

But I think that for a long time he was the sole decision maker re money spent - I would be hesitant to say the company would have approved the in house engine.

As the success came plenty of sponsors did and the cost directly to RB was probably lowed a fair bit, and probably profitable if you include exposure costs.

Its too not that a lot of these things wouldn't have been done - I can for example see the new wind tunnel being approved - but it likely would have gone through a few reviews, board approvals and so on to get there.

[Dee]

But I don't think much really gets done without Markos influence I doubt Dietrich pulls out of the Porsche deal without Markos advice and go down the path of RBPT, I think to some extent his influence is still all over RBR he has always been the spokesperson on upcoming updates. The Porsche deal was probably designed to stop this kinda conflict. I do think overall Horner would have had more influence and this blame.

Horner was the one that vetoed the Porsche deal, Mateschitz, Marko, AustriaRB wanted the Porsche deal to go ahead.

https://gp-news.net/the-porsche-factor- ... -red-bull/

"Christian Horner’s decision to veto the proposed partnership between Red Bull and Porsche—at a time when the deal was nearly finalized—created deep resentment, particularly with Mateschitz. Although the Red Bull co-founder was already battling terminal illness at the time and unable to act decisively, the fallout from that decision was lasting. Had Mateschitz been in full health, it is highly plausible that Christian Horner would have been removed from his leadership positions much earlier.Christian Horner reportedly wanted to acquire shares in Red Bull Racing’s motorsport division, mirroring the ownership model of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula One Team, where Team Principal Toto Wolff owns one-third of the team. However, Horner’s request for equity was denied."

Also RBPT was started in Feb 2021 to take over the Honda engines because Honda were pulling out, it wasn't until the Porsche deal collapsed that RB decided to make their own engine with Ford as their partner...

[Watto]

But I don't think much really gets done without Markos influence I doubt Dietrich pulls out of the Porsche deal without Markos advice and go down the path of RBPT, I think to some extent his influence is still all over RBR he has always been the spokesperson on upcoming updates. The Porsche deal was probably designed to stop this kinda conflict. I do think overall Horner would have had more influence and this blame.

Horner was the one that vetoed the Porsche deal, Mateschitz, Marko, AustriaRB wanted the Porsche deal to go ahead.

https://gp-news.net/the-porsche-factor- ... -red-bull/

"Christian Horner’s decision to veto the proposed partnership between Red Bull and Porsche—at a time when the deal was nearly finalized—created deep resentment, particularly with Mateschitz. Although the Red Bull co-founder was already battling terminal illness at the time and unable to act decisively, the fallout from that decision was lasting. Had Mateschitz been in full health, it is highly plausible that Christian Horner would have been removed from his leadership positions much earlier.Christian Horner reportedly wanted to acquire shares in Red Bull Racing’s motorsport division, mirroring the ownership model of Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula One Team, where Team Principal Toto Wolff owns one-third of the team. However, Horner’s request for equity was denied."

Also RBPT was started in Feb 2021 to take over the Honda engines because Honda were pulling out, it wasn't until the Porsche deal collapsed that RB decided to make their own engine with Ford as their partner...

Horner has zero power to zeto the Porsche deal. Horner is not a share holder, a CEO can not veto what shareholders do with their shares, sure he almost certainly pushed the idea with Mateschitz and played a key role in the decision in the end. Just Marko plays a pretty big role behind the scenes and has so for 20 years. I don't think for a moment if Mteschitz, Marko and RBGhbh wanted to see a 50% stake in the team it would be done and there isn't anything Horner could have done.

I think the Austrian side of the company very likely agreed with the call took away a lot of cost and risk to them to deal with on their own, I'm not convinced Marko was on board in the end and he has always had the of Mateschitz as their motorsport advise and RBGmbh employee.There isn't anything there that says he was .

[WardenOfTheNorth]

They just had a new team principal so who is making those decisions,the allege source say yuki contract is being terminated ,well yuki doesn't have contract with redbull for next year so you cant terminate a-contract that doesn't exist.

Said new Team Principal is also a big supporter of Yuki. I don't think anything will have been decided yet.

[basti313]

Horner has zero power to zeto the Porsche deal.

No, he has...POWER....

Palpatine (Darth Sidious):
"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

I wonder what people on this forums or Netflix will do without the perfect, powerful evil? Who will be the next Ernst Stavro Blofeld in F1? I do not think Meckies can serve into this.

Another good reason to get Max to Merc. Toto with Jos behind would make a good Sith lord for Sky UK.

[ispano6]

I would certainly put this down as rumour but David Croft had claimed Red Bull ignored warning the RB21 would be quick but undrivable I would say there is some classic media exaggeration here

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1077087/1 ... ble-f1-car

This sounds like the story for the RB20, not the RB21.

The exact words where said by Sergio Perez during the Azerbaijan free practice interview stating he warned them about it in Spanish GP in 2024 but they ignored him (Well mostly Christian Horner decided to ignore him)

Wasn't Baku the race Checo was on for a potential podium, possibly a win, if he hadn't had that unnecessary crash with Sainz toward the end of the race? Checo had it in the window and was pretty quick. So when it's in the right window, it can be fast.

[-wkst-]

But the big spending and 'corporate-free' attitudes would not have lasted super long if the success wasn't there. If they weren't winning, eventually RB higher ups would absolutely have stepped in and started questioning their big investment into the sport as a constructor. And it wouldn't have taken until Dietrich's death or anything, this would have likely happened way, way earlier. Without Newey, they might well have been out of the sport by like 2015. Obviously we cant know what they'd have done without him, but it almost assuredly would have never been anything like what they did ultimately achieve.

Newey was always their golden goose.

Absolutely not. Mateschitz was a motorsport junkie, unlike Football. He invested his private money in a lot of things around the RB circuit, as he was born there. Never ever he would had sold the team, that was his passion.

[-wkst-]

But the big spending and 'corporate-free' attitudes would not have lasted super long if the success wasn't there. If they weren't winning, eventually RB higher ups would absolutely have stepped in and started questioning their big investment into the sport as a constructor. And it wouldn't have taken until Dietrich's death or anything, this would have likely happened way, way earlier. Without Newey, they might well have been out of the sport by like 2015. Obviously we cant know what they'd have done without him, but it almost assuredly would have never been anything like what they did ultimately achieve.

Newey was always their golden goose.

Absolutely not. Mateschitz was a motorsport junkie, unlike Football. He invested his private money in a lot of things around the RB circuit, as he was born there. Never ever he would had sold the team, that was his passion. And he had the contractual Power to decide all on his own.

[TeamKoolGreen]

In the end, what we've witnessed since 2022 is simply a catastrophic failure of succession planning By Dietrich Mateschitz. Not even 6 months after his passing, the empire started falling apart from the inside out.

If he wanted the team to last, he needed much more planning and ideas to make it work. Separate RBR into a separate unit. Give Horner and Marko shares. Force them to make it work like they did for 20 years.

[Emag]

In the end, what we've witnessed since 2022 is simply a catastrophic failure of succession planning By Dietrich Mateschitz. Not even 6 months after his passing, the empire started falling apart from the inside out.

If he wanted the team to last, he needed much more planning and ideas to make it work. Separate RBR into a separate unit. Give Horner and Marko shares. Force them to make it work like they did for 20 years.

From one side, you could see it that it's really not his concern anymore what happens after his passing. He is done with this world and it makes no difference to him if RedBull goes bankrupt tomorrow. But I get what you mean.

In any case, I have heard his son has tried to take the reins to follow the footsteps of his father, however this is a matter of passion in my opinion. RedBull is a huge brand and motorsports is just a part of it. And it's not even the profit-driven part of it. Dietrich had a real passion for motorsport, F1 in particular and he dedicated a lot of himself to try and make the team successful. If his son doesn't share that passion, he won't be as involved with the team.