Silly season 2025-2026

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ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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TimW wrote:
21 Jul 2025, 16:44
WardenOfTheNorth wrote:
20 Jul 2025, 21:03
Henk_v wrote:
20 Jul 2025, 21:01

That is assuming MCL know why they are fast a d can translate that into 2026. Being fast by no means equals correlation.
Not in isolation, you are correct.

However building fast cars over several seasons AND having updates that all perform as expected suggests that they have a very good understanding of why their car is fast and how to develop it.
Red Bull seemed to have excellent correlation. Got it right in 2021 with the floor changes, and again in 2022 with the biggest aero ruleset changes in a very long time. Even avoiding porpoising.
Yet within a year they lost their way, even without any rule changes
The 21 changes were written specifically to hinder long wheelbase cars, which is why the floor cut was made relative to the front axle rather than the rear. In 22 they overspent

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djos
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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mzso wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 17:16
djos wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 09:26
Fred is just an anglicized adaptation of Fernando, it’s not meant in a derogatory fashion.
Well, it very much looks like it. Also it's wrong. Fred is the English diminutive of Alfred and Frederick. (Alfredo, Federico would be the Spanish variants.)

Fernando is the Spanish variant of Ferdinand. You might as well call him Joe...
Fair enough. I personally think Fernando is a total legend and love watching him in action. I’ve called him Fred occasionally, but not meant in a negative fashion.
"In downforce we trust"

vorticism
vorticism
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 20:47
TimW wrote:
21 Jul 2025, 16:44
Red Bull seemed to have excellent correlation. Got it right in 2021 with the floor changes, and again in 2022 with the biggest aero ruleset changes in a very long time. Even avoiding porpoising.
Yet within a year they lost their way, even without any rule changes
The 21 changes were written specifically to hinder long wheelbase cars, which is why the floor cut was made relative to the front axle rather than the rear. In 22 they overspent
The "exclusion volume around the rear wheels" (3.7.2, 2021 ed.) was a triangle bound by the rear axle, the edge of the floor, and a forward point aligned with the rear face of the cockpit entry (plane "C-C"). Generally speaking the area ratio of a triangle section of a rectangle scales proportionally with the rectangle. That could be read as fairness: an attempt to reduce floor area by percentage not by an absolute value. Your claim should read something more like: "cars with gearboxes and/or fuel tanks longer than or equal to those of a Mercedes W12 will suffer more from a ~5% loss of floor area while cars with gearboxes and/or fuel tanks shorter than those of a Mercedes W12 will suffer less from a ~5% loss of floor area."

$400k wouldn't have salvaged the W13 concept. $5m wouldn't have salvaged the W13 concept. $50m wouldn't have salvaged the W13 concept. Merc and everyone else now run an RB18 series car--and they got it for free, courtesy RB. Think of how slow they'd still be if not for RB F1 charity design services.

mzso
mzso
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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dren wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 19:50
mzso wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 17:21
dren wrote:
07 Aug 2025, 13:37
Alonso vs Sainz for the title with the occasional sniff from one of the Mclaren duo.
I understand not counting Stroll, but Albon will be just sleeping or something? So far he outperformed Sainz by a significant margin.
I expect Sainz to get the jump over Albon with the new regs.
Why? Are you Spanish and wishful? I expect the two around the same level, based on their record. They couldn't measure up to Verstappen/Leclerc when in a top team.

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dren
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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No, I'm not. I do think Sainz was closer to both than Albon was or ever would have been.
Honda!

TimW
TimW
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.

A more meaningful comparison would be to take e.g. Sainz as a reference in two successive years, and use that to link Leclerc to Albon.

mzso
mzso
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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TimW wrote:
08 Aug 2025, 18:41
Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.
The main difference being a much faster car.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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TimW wrote:
08 Aug 2025, 18:41
Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.

A more meaningful comparison would be to take e.g. Sainz as a reference in two successive years, and use that to link Leclerc to Albon.

I think Sainz was less experienced in F1 than Max was despite Max being 18 years old. Max was 17 in 2014. His first free practice was in Suzuka if i recall.

Biological age has little to do with these hand-eye coordination + strategic sports, once there is no muscular limitation.
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Jurgen von Diaz
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Joined: 11 Feb 2024, 18:38

Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
TimW wrote:
08 Aug 2025, 18:41
Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.

A more meaningful comparison would be to take e.g. Sainz as a reference in two successive years, and use that to link Leclerc to Albon.

I think Sainz was less experienced in F1 than Max was despite Max being 18 years old. Max was 17 in 2014. His first free practice was in Suzuka if i recall.

Biological age has little to do with these hand-eye coordination + strategic sports, once there is no muscular limitation.
Sainz had 5 years of experience in single seaters before F1, Max had only 1 year. Racing as a 20-year-old against a 17-year-old who had been karting 1.5 years before coming to F1. That is a game changer if the child beats you.

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dren
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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First driver to win a race between the rookies?
Honda!

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AR3-GP
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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dren wrote:
12 Aug 2025, 19:04
First driver to win a race between the rookies?
ANT
It doesn't turn.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
12 Aug 2025, 05:07
PlatinumZealot wrote:
TimW wrote:
08 Aug 2025, 18:41
Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.

A more meaningful comparison would be to take e.g. Sainz as a reference in two successive years, and use that to link Leclerc to Albon.

I think Sainz was less experienced in F1 than Max was despite Max being 18 years old. Max was 17 in 2014. His first free practice was in Suzuka if i recall.

Biological age has little to do with these hand-eye coordination + strategic sports, once there is no muscular limitation.
Sainz had 5 years of experience in single seaters before F1, Max had only 1 year. Racing as a 20-year-old against a 17-year-old who had been karting 1.5 years before coming to F1. That is a game changer if the child beats you.
He had thousands of Km testing and an F1 father. He was very much ready. Not to mention given favourable treatment. Sainz family was neglected by Redbull because of internal team politics. Either way both rookies were evenly matched. Nothing remarkable or spectacular at the time.
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Jurgen von Diaz
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Jurgen von Diaz wrote:
12 Aug 2025, 05:07
PlatinumZealot wrote:

I think Sainz was less experienced in F1 than Max was despite Max being 18 years old. Max was 17 in 2014. His first free practice was in Suzuka if i recall.

Biological age has little to do with these hand-eye coordination + strategic sports, once there is no muscular limitation.
Sainz had 5 years of experience in single seaters before F1, Max had only 1 year. Racing as a 20-year-old against a 17-year-old who had been karting 1.5 years before coming to F1. That is a game changer if the child beats you.
He had thousands of Km testing and an F1 father. He was very much ready. Not to mention given favourable treatment. Sainz family was neglected by Redbull because of internal team politics. Either way both rookies were evenly matched. Nothing remarkable or spectacular at the time.
So did Sainz testing, too. What's your point? When Verstappen was given the seat, there was noise that a child is NOT ready for F1, so young and with so little experience. It was the same reason why Verstappen was promoted to Red Bull and F1: exceptional skills with so little experience, whereas Sainz couldn't match that with more experience in single-seaters. That meant that Verstappen's potential ceiling was higher than Sainz's. Verstappen was ranked 4th by team principals in 2015, when Sainz wasn't even in the top 10.


TimW
TimW
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Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
12 Aug 2025, 01:20
TimW wrote:
08 Aug 2025, 18:41
Sainz raced against a 17 yo Verstappen, Albon against a prime Verstappen. They are not comparable.

A more meaningful comparison would be to take e.g. Sainz as a reference in two successive years, and use that to link Leclerc to Albon.

I think Sainz was less experienced in F1 than Max was despite Max being 18 years old. Max was 17 in 2014. His first free practice was in Suzuka if i recall.

Biological age has little to do with these hand-eye coordination + strategic sports, once there is no muscular limitation.
Not sure if what you are trying to prove, but Verstappens birthday is 30 September, so he was 17 for the majority of the 2015 season.
Fun fact: Verstappen and Leclerc only differ 2 weeks in age. Both went from carting to cars at the same time.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Silly season 2025-2026

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What are we talking about? Putting Sainz now as Max's teammate?

I would love that. Under one condition. It cannot be at RedBull.
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