2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Emag]

There has got to be sentiment involved with statements like these.

Carlos was better than post 2009 Massa. He was better than 2019 & 2020 Seb and I know its touchy subject for some, but Carlos was also better than Raikkonen was on his 2nd F1 stint too.

If I have to pick the worst driver for Ferrari in the last 20 years, I would say 2010-2013 Massa by far.

[ScuderiaLeo]

There has got to be sentiment involved with statements like these.

Carlos was better than post 2009 Massa. He was better than 2019 & 2020 Seb and I know its touchy subject for some, but Carlos was also better than Raikkonen was on his 2nd F1 stint too.

If I have to pick the worst driver for Ferrari in the last 20 years, I would say 2010-2013 Massa by far.

I assumed they were talking about the drivers's whole careers and not just individual years. I don't think anyone in their right mind could argue Sainz was worse than 2020 Vettel

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Worst Ferrari driver in past 20 years…..

Surely Luca Badoer, no??

[Big Tea]

There are probably combination effects to consider for which we don't have enough information too.
I do not even pretend to be smart enough to include everything, so please excuse my naivety and lack of knowledge and technical terms when I give my "off the cuff" thoughts, which I am sure many others have done in a better format.

Tyre pressure along with the effects of ride height also affect traction, not only in cornering and acceleration but the ability to put more drag on them for energy recovery which becomes it own feed back loop loosing on both ends. In addition extra fuel must be used replacing the lost charge and the lost power from the motor, which could also affect the mode he was allowed due to unanticipated fuel use . I can see this being a complete can of worms that threw up some unexpected work for the Strat team, who probably had different thoughts to the driver and engineer causing more "worms".

[AR3-GP]

It's 100% a negative feedback loop. Higher cold pressures become even higher rolling pressures. Car slides more, tires get hotter, pressure increases, ground clearance increases, car slides more, tires get hotter, pressure increases, ground clearance increases, tire deg, +++

[deadhead]

If there was something major/structural going on that might’ve caused a DNF why not let the driver know instead of letting him fume for half the race distance?

A simple “we have a major issue you need to nurse the car home” would’ve sufficed.

[IntrinsicVoid]

If there was something major/structural going on that might’ve caused a DNF why not let the driver know instead of letting him fume for half the race distance?

A simple “we have a major issue you need to nurse the car home” would’ve sufficed.

Exactly, its plain simple that they didn’t want to spill the beans what the issue was.

[AR3-GP]

RUS,PIA,LEC were checked for plank wear according to scrutineering document.



https://www.fia.com/documents/champions ... -2025-2071

No cars were checked at Spa. Odd.

[ScuderiaLeo]

I'm surprised AR hasn't chimed in on the plank or chassis controversy yet.

It's probably because they have no information on it, meaning I wouldn't trust information from any other source either.

Worst Ferrari driver in past 20 years…..

Surely Luca Badoer, no??

I guess technically Badoer was a driver in the last twenty years, but wasn't that only for one race? Lol

[Seanspeed]

There has got to be sentiment involved with statements like these.

Carlos was better than post 2009 Massa. He was better than 2019 & 2020 Seb and I know its touchy subject for some, but Carlos was also better than Raikkonen was on his 2nd F1 stint too.

If I have to pick the worst driver for Ferrari in the last 20 years, I would say 2010-2013 Massa by far.

Massa was not some different driver after 2009. He was comprehensively beaten in 2006 by Schumacher, much like he was comprehensively beaten by Alonso(albeit no longer in a top car and thus performance deficits were punished harder). Massa was also never even better than Heidfeld or Fisichella.

Among Ferrari drivers of the past two decades, I'd put Sainz ahead of Massa, Kimi and Fisichella. Not by miles, but if you believe Leclerc is a top driver, then those other guys were all beaten by actual top drivers much more significantly.

[hollus]

Can we stop the driver ying yang of decades past? Why not talk Fangio, then?.
It detracts from the, you know, "tech" thing that is special about this forum. As in, literally dilutes it and drowns it away.
There are other forums for pure Ferrari fandom.

[Xyz22]

So McLaren has already won 10 races this year which is the same amount of wins Ferrari collected from 2020 to 2024.
They will finish the year around 20 wins, probably. In order to arrive at 20 wins for Ferrari we need to go back to mid 2017.

These results highlight the difference between a Team that worked well with the goal of winning the world championship:
- Pushed for budget cap which allowed them to compete
- Invested huge amount of money in state of the art structures
- Hired top engineers and put great talents in leading positions

People thinking that Ferrari can produce a better car than McLaren are completely delusional.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

There has got to be sentiment involved with statements like these.

Carlos was better than post 2009 Massa. He was better than 2019 & 2020 Seb and I know its touchy subject for some, but Carlos was also better than Raikkonen was on his 2nd F1 stint too.

If I have to pick the worst driver for Ferrari in the last 20 years, I would say 2010-2013 Massa by far.

Massa was not some different driver after 2009. He was comprehensively beaten in 2006 by Schumacher, much like he was comprehensively beaten by Alonso(albeit no longer in a top car and thus performance deficits were punished harder). Massa was also never even better than Heidfeld or Fisichella.

Among Ferrari drivers of the past two decades, I'd put Sainz ahead of Massa, Kimi and Fisichella. Not by miles, but if you believe Leclerc is a top driver, then those other guys were all beaten by actual top drivers much more significantly.

Sainz better than Ferrari champion Räikkönen? That makes Albon like Williams's hall of famer, who is making Sainz look foolish.

[Andi76]

I see you've abandoned the obvious falsehood/hyperbole (at least in this post).

The only things that matter are points (Championship position) and wins (PR). Please remind us who led whom in both those categories over the relevant period? Why did you selectively exclude the data points that contradicted you?
I agree wholeheartedly and I'm interested to learn what you hope to constructively contribute to the Ferrari team thread with your aggresive, hyperbolic, inaccurate comments and personal attacks?

I'm just stating the facts. If you take that as a personal attack, then I can't help it. And falsehood/hypertension... Anyone can look at the numbers, you realize that, right? And the facts here are simply that Russell Hamilton won in both 2022 and 2024, and in 2024 by an extremely clear margin. Of course, you can try to sugarcoat defeats by making up things, but how do you assess whether a driver has beaten his teammate? It's the duels in qualifying, the race duels, and the world championship standings (as you correctly point out, but seem to have overlooked that Russell beat Hamilton in both 2022 and 2024). Victories play a secondary role, because what good is a victory if I am two hundred points behind my teammate and have lost all the qualifying and race duels? Have I beaten him just because I have one victory? I don't think so, especially since Russell had the same number of victories as Hamilton in 2024 and even more in 2022, namely one, while Hamilton had none.

And sorry - if you just look at the facts -

2022 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - Russell

2024 Qualifying duel - Russell
Race duel - Russell
Points - Russell
Victories - tie

Then it becomes very clear that Russell beat Hamilton in almost all disciplines in two of the three seasons. Even in the victories you mentioned, Russell has one more victory in the three years...

Your own words are "the only thing that matters are wins and championship points" - and I should tell you who led whom in these categories.

So again

2022 Russell 1 win Hamilton 0 - Winner Russell
Russell 275 points, Hamilton 240 Winner

So 2022 goes to Russell according to your own criteria.

2024 Wins Russell 2, Hamilton 2 tie
Points Russell 245 Hamilton 223

So 2024 also goes to Russell, based on your criteria. And that's not even taking into account the clear victories in qualifying (19-5).

So you can twist and turn it any way you want – Russell beat Hamilton in two of the three years. And very clearly in the last one. The numbers prove it. Even your OWN criteria prove it. If you continue to talk about falsehood/hyperbole, it only makes it clear that my statement of denial was exactly what it ultimately is – a statement. Not an attack.

Why am I posting this in the Ferrari team thread? Because I'm presenting facts that were dismissed with platitudes in a discussion about the balance of power and the comparability of teammates, And what just wasn't right.

What happened to 2023?

Did we not have a f1 2023 season? im pretty sure results show up in google. or is it the 59 point gap / 5 places between them in the drivers championship not quite fitting into your narrative?.

Its ok to say, that the season after the FIA stole a title from LH he didnt show up, and his team mate beat him by 35 points. Its ok to say that the year after, LH turned up, and beat GR by 59 points, with both his driving ability and EXP helping LH to a 3rd place drivers championship finish while GR battled it out for 8th. Its ok to say, that after telling the world of his depature from Mercedes to join a direct rival, he was kept in the dark about how to extract the most performance from his car, and all Mercedes focus shifted to GR because he was the " future " as per Totos own words, but only lost by 22 points, with one of if not the best over take of the season on his team mate.

But in the end, he still left Mercedes having scored more points than GR in the 3 years he and GR was together at Mercedes for...


He is only 16 points behind CL, So performing quite well considering CL is supposed to be at / near Max's level.

The point is that he has lost twice to Russell in three years. On points in three seasons... Stop it, that's ridiculous. But tell yourself whatever you want, just because he was better in one season. The fact is, he lost twice to Russell in three seasons. And now he's losing to Leclerc, who makes him look old...

[AR3-GP]

...

It's been a while. Any insights to the problems that Ferrari had in Hungary?