2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[michl420]

Let's make it more clear shall we?

If driver lifts of the throttle, is it allowed the ICE to charge the battery then like in Toyota Prius when car is just coasting? Can the ICE still charge the battery even when demanding 100% load full throttle? Like in same time?

This is the real thrill of the rules if allowed, like replacing the hybrid turbo with more simple approach ICE straightly charging the battery, and not via complex and costly turbocharger unit.

Under full trottle, the MGUK can harvest up to 100 kw, but not instantly, just down the straight.
Part- and off-trottle, harvesting is limited by the reduced fuel flow limit there.
I suggest you download the technical regulations. Section 5.2 is of interest to you.

Edit: sorry, complet wrong.

[michl420]

This is getting out of hand.

edit: maybe I'm getting old but the whole rules: Aero / PU / (and no active suspension) sound like a fever dream to me.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/fo ... ia-daten/ v

I don`t like this overregulation. Now we have specific rules for every, track, straight, overtaking, braking,.... Let the teams be individual.

[wuzak]

Under full trottle, the MGUK can harvest up to 100 kw, but not instantly, just down the straight.
Part- and off-trottle, harvesting is limited by the reduced fuel flow limit there.
I suggest you download the technical regulations. Section 5.2 is of interest to you.

The rule has been update a couple of times.

The rule as at 31 July 2025 is:

C5.12.6 The driver maximum power demand must not be reduced at any greater than the rates defined below:
a. 50kW in any 1s period at Competitions where the FIA determines that the power limited distance exceeds 3500m. These Competitions and the vehicle fundamentals used for the calculation of the power limited distance may be found in the document FIA-F1-DOC-Cxxx.
b. 100kW in any 1s period at all other Competitions.
Furthermore, the total power reduction is limited to a maximum of 600kW and the resulting electrical DC power of the ERS-K must remain above −250kW.

C5.12.f The electrical DC power of the ERS‐K may not be reduced at rates greater than those specified in Article C5.12.6, unless:

• the theoretical MGUK power resulting from reduction at rates equal to those specified in Article C5.12.6 is negative;
• the ICE power is negative and the ERS-K power needs to be reduced further to achieve the driver demand;
• the ERS-K power needs to be reduced further to achieve the maximum power permitted by Article C5. 2.8;
• the driver power demand is negative;
• a gearshift is in progress.
• car speed is below 210kph.

[michl420]

That enables up to 350 kw MGUK regeneration always when the car is under 210 kph.
So they can (and will) run the ice under 210 kph always (exept of high braking zones) under heavy load?

[wuzak]

That enables up to 350 kw MGUK regeneration always when the car is under 210 kph.
So they can (and will) run the ice under 210 kph always (exept of high braking zones) under heavy load?

I think that refers to the ramp rate at which the MGUK power can be reduced.

[michl420]

That enables up to 350 kw MGUK regeneration always when the car is under 210 kph.
So they can (and will) run the ice under 210 kph always (exept of high braking zones) under heavy load?

I think that refers to the ramp rate at which the MGUK power can be reduced.

Yes

[eyelid]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

[DenBommer]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

I also don’t understand why they don’t integrate a generator on the front axle. I know extra weight and all that. But it’s F1, look at how light the brakes are compared to a regular car. I believe they could make an ultra-light front generator.

[wuzak]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

They can use teh ICE to charge the battery.

Up to 250kW under full throttle, less at part throttle.

[Chuckjr]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

IMO, I think it is sad F1 has bent over so far backwards to destroy the authenticity of the sport, and properties of the car that made F1 so thrilling back in the day--small, light, nimble, and loud.

[DenBommer]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

They can use teh ICE to charge the battery.

Up to 250kW under full throttle, less at part throttle.

Yes, I know. They’re now going to burn 20–30 kg of fuel to charge the battery. But then you’re burning expensive synthetic fuel. If you can get that extra kW from braking, it’s kind of “free,” and you can save fuel.

[eyelid]

Not seen this posted yet...

https://i.postimg.cc/7brkjqKj/pf.png

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

They can use teh ICE to charge the battery.

Up to 250kW under full throttle, less at part throttle.

And that is just by pressing brake pedal on straigths under full throttle, so it's braking energy imho, not ICE charging the battery straightly.

[wuzak]

This must the most stupidiest engine rules ever on hybrid era. Only braking energy allowed to charge up the battery - not even ICE can't charge it on it's own to make it thrill and interesting development. This is several steps back to what we have even now.

They can use teh ICE to charge the battery.

Up to 250kW under full throttle, less at part throttle.

And that is just by pressing brake pedal on straigths under full throttle, so it's braking energy imho, not ICE charging the battery straightly.

No, the brake pedal won't be pushed when at full throttle.

There will be a braking effect.

At part throttle, the recovery will be the difference between what the ICE can deliver and the driver demands.

[eyelid]

They can use teh ICE to charge the battery.

Up to 250kW under full throttle, less at part throttle.

And that is just by pressing brake pedal on straigths under full throttle, so it's braking energy imho, not ICE charging the battery straightly.

No, the brake pedal won't be pushed when at full throttle.

There will be a braking effect.

At part throttle, the recovery will be the difference between what the ICE can deliver and the driver demands.

I see. That wasn't visible on the posted energy flow diagram what I quoted. This is now interesting. Any proper video explanation of all these? I guess the rules are way too complex when even hardcore fans has hard time following them.

[diffuser]

And that is just by pressing brake pedal on straigths under full throttle, so it's braking energy imho, not ICE charging the battery straightly.

No, the brake pedal won't be pushed when at full throttle.

There will be a braking effect.

At part throttle, the recovery will be the difference between what the ICE can deliver and the driver demands.

I see. That wasn't visible on the posted energy flow diagram what I quoted. This is now interesting. Any proper video explanation of all these? I guess the rules are way too complex when even hardcore fans has hard time following them.

F1 was never a simple sport. If you thought it was, that was just an illusion.