2025 McLaren F1 Team

[BMMR61]

I have been moderately critical of the way they handled this - Oscar's radio challenge that the pitstop issue wasn't an undercut so the promises technically don't apply. Being the good team player he is he quickly relented and played the game. There is a seeming element of manufacturing outcomes and that's where the optics look poor. On the other hand there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the loudest critics who last year were calling for the team to turn Oscar into a rear gunner to Lando.

I guess there's another disappointment for me that I thought once the WCC is assured (it virtually is and should be clinched at Baku) it's each driver (and engineer) for himself provided there's no contact. At the moment nothing could be further from that. Let them race. Maybe they will.

[Balalu]

I have been moderately critical of the way they handled this - Oscar's radio challenge that the pitstop issue wasn't an undercut so the promises technically don't apply. Being the good team player he is he quickly relented and played the game. There is a seeming element of manufacturing outcomes and that's where the optics look poor. On the other hand there's a bit of hypocrisy in some of the loudest critics who last year were calling for the team to turn Oscar into a rear gunner to Lando.

I guess there's another disappointment for me that I thought once the WCC is assured (it virtually is and should be clinched at Baku) it's each driver (and engineer) for himself provided there's no contact. At the moment nothing could be further from that. Let them race. Maybe they will.

The problem with that is that there is still just one pit box/crew.

Either way, McLaren would still prioritize team harmony with the future in mind.

[basti313]

Essentially you are suggesting with that split (@Basti) is pitting Lando early, so Max has to cover, resulting in Oscar benefitting.
Finish line is Oscar-Max-Lando.

Maybe. Or...RedBull does not react as they do not want to pit Max behind Lewis, which would be the other way round.
Which should in any case not play any role, as the team comes first, right? And a 1-3 is better than 2-3 for the team?

I’d love to hear that radio call:

Well, I would love to hear anything but them quitting racing.
As Balalu said...they are about "harmony". That I always dreamed about in F1. You too?

[mwillems]

Some people here refuse to accept any criticism at all. It creates this fake atmosphere of sunflowers and daisies where everything feels calm and reserved just because, in the bigger picture, it does not matter much right now. McLaren are almost guaranteed both titles. But if you are looking at it objectively, you cannot only judge things through rose-tinted glasses. There is nothing wrong with pointing out weaknesses or missteps along the way. Constructive criticism is part of following the sport, and it does not mean you are being overly negative or dramatic. People should relax a bit and not take every comment as some harsh attack, because at the end of the day it is just discussing the sport we all enjoy.

It was not a catastrophic strategy, but it was not good either. The whole idea was shut down quickly by Max’s pace, and there was no real need to force it and create unnecessary risk.

However, moments like this matter because it shows that right now the pit wall is without question the weakest link in what is otherwise a really complete team. Since last year it has been clear that the strategy group is a step behind compared to how quickly the rest of the operation has developed. The car, the drivers, the pit crew, all of that is at a top level, while the decision-making on the wall still lags a bit. They are obviously aware of this and working to close the gap. Will Courtenay coming in next year is a sign they are investing in that area, and there are probably more behind-the-scenes adjustments happening at lower levels that we don't hear about.

That's the last thing I have to say on the topic. Looking forward to Baku. It should be slightly better for McLaren there but I expect a really strong RedBull again. It seems their last upgrade package has brought that car into a more comfortable window for Max, however one race is too small a sample to draw conclusions from. Singapore probably will be the "real" test.

I think the issue is more that some who are critiquing aren't capable of carrying forward the possibility they are wrong.

It is put in such absolute terms that it isnt an opinion but an immutable truth.

Those people are driving this conversation, and those conversations are always unhealthy. Because neither side can see a way to compromise or agree to disagree.

Its probably also not great to make a massive bold opinion that is put so forcefully as to demand acceptance, and then claim the opposing bold statements are because others dont like criticism.

Kind of feels like they want their opinion to be untouchable.

Which of course it isnt, being only a subjective opinion.

[venkyhere]

I can't wait for Baku weekend to come, just for the sake of this thread shifting it's focus from 'whether the team order was correct or not'. Done to death topic. Let's move on, please. Nothing we say here or what the media says, is in any way going to influence the way the team is run. Why don't we go back to analyzing 'technical' aspects of the car/driving ?

[Ben1980]

My issue is people seemingly deliberately believing that this was a "normal" stop.

If Lando stops first, and has a slow stop, to be overtaken. The request does not happen. I

[Sevach]

Essentially you are suggesting with that split (@Basti) is pitting Lando early, so Max has to cover, resulting in Oscar benefitting.
Finish line is Oscar-Max-Lando.

I’d love to hear that radio call: Er, Lando, we have an opportunity here. We’ll put you in traffic and, if Red Bull reacts as we expect, you’ll be stuck behind Max all race anyways. You’ll lose 3 points and Oscar will win 10. You in?

They did that in Hungary, a "extremely optimistic" undercut for Piastri on Leclerc or they wanted to force Charles to react, ended up benefitting Lando.
After the pitstops Piastri was still behind Charles, so "good" the calls were for him, only Charles losing performance in a unpredictable manner allowed him through.
And this was in Hungary a track where position takes precedence and it's exceedingly hard to overtake.

This time they didn't feel like doing that for whatever reason.

[FittingMechanics]

Essentially you are suggesting with that split (@Basti) is pitting Lando early, so Max has to cover, resulting in Oscar benefitting.
Finish line is Oscar-Max-Lando.

I’d love to hear that radio call: Er, Lando, we have an opportunity here. We’ll put you in traffic and, if Red Bull reacts as we expect, you’ll be stuck behind Max all race anyways. You’ll lose 3 points and Oscar will win 10. You in?

Exactly. In isolation you could say why don't you split strategies and put pressure on Verstappen. One car goes early, other goes late. In 2024 it may have happened. In 2025 it will not happen because the drivers will tend to stick to what is seen as an optimal strategy. This is especially true of Oscar who is in the lead and who will choose conservative strategies in regards to point loss against Norris. So if Norris gambles by going long, Oscar will likely choose the same strategy.

Norris may start to gamble more, especially if he is behind Piastri. In those situations he may switch strategies when Oscar pits, he needs big points swings and staying on same strategy doesn't work for him.

In this race, we had Norris ahead in P2 so any chance of Piastri going different strategy was highly unlikely. After all the points loss was just 3 points.

My issue is people seemingly deliberately believing that this was a "normal" stop.

If Lando stops first, and has a slow stop, to be overtaken. The request does not happen. I

Again, fully agreed. The switch back was not because of the mistake, it was because the undercut benefit meant Norris losing 3 seconds in the stop meant he lost a position. If he went to pits one lap earlier, he would gain 3-4 relative to Oscar and even with the pitstop issue he would not be under threat.

[Ben1980]

Essentially you are suggesting with that split (@Basti) is pitting Lando early, so Max has to cover, resulting in Oscar benefitting.
Finish line is Oscar-Max-Lando.

I’d love to hear that radio call: Er, Lando, we have an opportunity here. We’ll put you in traffic and, if Red Bull reacts as we expect, you’ll be stuck behind Max all race anyways. You’ll lose 3 points and Oscar will win 10. You in?

They did that in Hungary, a "extremely optimistic" undercut for Piastri on Leclerc or they wanted to force Charles to react, ended up benefitting Lando.
After the pitstops Piastri was still behind Charles, so "good" the calls were for him, only Charles losing performance in a unpredictable manner allowed him through.
And this was in Hungary a track where position takes precedence and it's exceedingly hard to overtake.

This time they didn't feel like doing that for whatever reason.

You've just pointed out, that it didn't work then, its unlikely to work this time. The team was fully aware of the RB performance.

Why compound a mistake by doing another?

[Sevach]

Essentially you are suggesting with that split (@Basti) is pitting Lando early, so Max has to cover, resulting in Oscar benefitting.
Finish line is Oscar-Max-Lando.

I’d love to hear that radio call: Er, Lando, we have an opportunity here. We’ll put you in traffic and, if Red Bull reacts as we expect, you’ll be stuck behind Max all race anyways. You’ll lose 3 points and Oscar will win 10. You in?

They did that in Hungary, a "extremely optimistic" undercut for Piastri on Leclerc or they wanted to force Charles to react, ended up benefitting Lando.
After the pitstops Piastri was still behind Charles, so "good" the calls were for him, only Charles losing performance in a unpredictable manner allowed him through.
And this was in Hungary a track where position takes precedence and it's exceedingly hard to overtake.

This time they didn't feel like doing that for whatever reason.

You've just pointed out, that it didn't work then, its unlikely to work this time. The team was fully aware of the RB performance.

Why compound a mistake by doing another?

It got Mclaren the win, from a team perspective i'd call that "worked".
I guess this time preserving the order was more important.

[Matt-A]

The Red Bull was too fast to try that this time. It finished 20 seconds down the road from McLaren. That's nearly a free pit stop, whatever strategy they tried.

[Ben1980]

They did that in Hungary, a "extremely optimistic" undercut for Piastri on Leclerc or they wanted to force Charles to react, ended up benefitting Lando.
After the pitstops Piastri was still behind Charles, so "good" the calls were for him, only Charles losing performance in a unpredictable manner allowed him through.
And this was in Hungary a track where position takes precedence and it's exceedingly hard to overtake.

This time they didn't feel like doing that for whatever reason.

You've just pointed out, that it didn't work then, its unlikely to work this time. The team was fully aware of the RB performance.

Why compound a mistake by doing another?

It got Mclaren the win.
I guess this time preserving the order was more important.

When would you have pitted obe of the drivers? And where would they have come out, in comparison.

And, do you really think that would have got a win?

[Sevach]

You've just pointed out, that it didn't work then, its unlikely to work this time. The team was fully aware of the RB performance.

Why compound a mistake by doing another?

It got Mclaren the win.
I guess this time preserving the order was more important.

When would you have pitted obe of the drivers? And where would they have come out, in comparison.

And, do you really think that would have got a win?

Just showing that they tried splitting strategies in Hungary and it got them track position (with one car) and the win, there were no guarantees either but they tried.
In Monza they played it safe and lost it safe.

[geogate]

Baku is a little too Monza for my liking ... well, the car's liking really. I think it will be rinse and repeat. If Ferrari sorts themselves out, we could even struggle for a podium

[CjC]

Baku is a little too Monza for my liking ... well, the car's liking really. I think it will be rinse and repeat. If Ferrari sorts themselves out, we could even struggle for a podium

Yea Monza, Baku and Vegas are the remaining races that I think won’t be favourable to McLaren.
There aren’t many medium speed corners in Baku for the McLarens to have any advantage. I think we’ll see a Silverstone type low DF wing on Verstappen, he’ll be in the mix for pole- I’m just hoping that there will actually be some tyre wear this race where McLaren can lean on that advantage again.
Leclerc might get in there in quali as he’s a Baku specialist but who knows what Ferrari will have to do regarding plank wear for the race