2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[mzso]

So you also believe in axial-flux motors/generators?

It would be interesting if they tried front regen. It seems better suited for F1 with the better power density.

[gruntguru]

If you really want to make the racing unsafe, you could simply specify cable-operated drum brakes. Much cheaper.

Braking earlier and from less speed in most cases, would be safer.

No!!!

Slowing the car for the next corner is not the only reason for having brakes. If an obstacle suddenly appears on the track ahead, would you prefer the car's stopping distance to be 100m or 300m?

There has never been a time in the history of Formula 1 where cars did not have enough braking retardation to exceed the coefficient of friction between tyre and track.

[Holm86]

It's kinda funny how FIA removes the MGU-H from the 2026 engines, and then Porsche slabs TWO of them on their next gen 911 Turbo S

[wuzak]

It's kinda funny how FIA removes the MGU-H from the 2026 engines, and then Porsche slabs TWO of them on their next gen 911 Turbo S

https://youtu.be/hZ83HJaCeOI?si=ASMeGy8JZPb2EgYS

And they specifically removed them to suit Audi and Porsche, though Porsche didn't end up in F1.

Aldo, Ferrari have 2 on their F80.

[diffuser]

It's kinda funny how FIA removes the MGU-H from the 2026 engines, and then Porsche slabs TWO of them on their next gen 911 Turbo S

https://youtu.be/hZ83HJaCeOI?si=ASMeGy8JZPb2EgYS

And they specifically removed them to suit Audi and Porsche, though Porsche didn't end up in F1.

Aldo, Ferrari have 2 on their F80.

Merc have them on some of their street cars for a while now.

[saviour stivala]

With the MGU-H dropped for the 2026 rules harvesting possibility under part and full throttle has also been dropped. There will be no other form of harvesting allowed in 2026 beyond regenartive braking, as the primary way energy is recovered is through MGU-K which functions during braking and decelartion.

[saviour stivala]

A long time ago when Red Bull decided to start manufuctering its own PU, I qouted a design engineer of their team at the time as saying that the FIA rules will not allow harvesting other than under braking. On here that that engineer was promptly labeled as not being involved with and so have no experience with ERS system. Regardless of those maintianing to this day that harvesting other than under braking will be done and so will be allowed, it turned out that engineer was not only correct but know what he was talking about.

[Tommy Cookers]

... the MGU-H dropped for the 2026 rules ....

yes that's in the rules
other rules are in people's imagination (the rules don't mention either way what some believe is called 'harvesting' ?)

eg for c.3 decades drivers haven't operated the throttle (if there even is one)
the drive-by-wire stuff has considered driver torque demand along with other demands

2026 FUEL is my current people-peeve (we've had years to sort this out)
rules seem to demand 3000 MJ's worth of 38-41 MJ/kg (pseudo) gasoline with no more than 3% methanol and no ethanol
(that's unlike present fuel or a higher bio-ethanol blend that some might envisage in defiance of the weight rule)

[Holm86]

It's kinda funny how FIA removes the MGU-H from the 2026 engines, and then Porsche slabs TWO of them on their next gen 911 Turbo S

https://youtu.be/hZ83HJaCeOI?si=ASMeGy8JZPb2EgYS

And they specifically removed them to suit Audi and Porsche, though Porsche didn't end up in F1.

Aldo, Ferrari have 2 on their F80.

Yes, that's so ironic

And yes I actually forgot that the F80 also had two.

Merc have them on some of their street cars for a while now.

Yes true, on the AMG C43 and C63(4 cylinder hybrid variant) I believe

[wuzak]

With the MGU-H dropped for the 2026 rules harvesting possibility under part and full throttle has also been dropped. There will be no other form of harvesting allowed in 2026 beyond regenartive braking, as the primary way energy is recovered is through MGU-K which functions during braking and decelartion.

The rules specifically allow up to 250kW recovery under maximum driver power demand.

And have additional fuel flow limitations for part throttle, presumably to limit part throttle recovery.

[mzso]

There has never been a time in the history of Formula 1 where cars did not have enough braking retardation to exceed the coefficient of friction between tyre and track.

I don't think that's actually true today, at high speeds.

[saviour stivala]

With the MGU-H dropped for the 2026 rules harvesting possibility under part and full throttle has also been dropped. There will be no other form of harvesting allowed in 2026 beyond regenartive braking, as the primary way energy is recovered is through MGU-K which functions during braking and decelartion.

The rules specifically allow up to 250kW recovery under maximum driver power demand.

And have additional fuel flow limitations for part throttle, presumably to limit part throttle recovery.

Energy recovery will solely rely on kinetic energy from braking.

[wuzak]

With the MGU-H dropped for the 2026 rules harvesting possibility under part and full throttle has also been dropped. There will be no other form of harvesting allowed in 2026 beyond regenartive braking, as the primary way energy is recovered is through MGU-K which functions during braking and decelartion.

The rules specifically allow up to 250kW recovery under maximum driver power demand.

And have additional fuel flow limitations for part throttle, presumably to limit part throttle recovery.

Energy recovery will solely rely on kinetic energy from braking.

Kinetic energy from braking will not get the allowed amount of recovery per lap.

They will use the engine to generate electricity.

[dren]

The rules specifically allow up to 250kW recovery under maximum driver power demand.

And have additional fuel flow limitations for part throttle, presumably to limit part throttle recovery.

Energy recovery will solely rely on kinetic energy from braking.

Kinetic energy from braking will not get the allowed amount of recovery per lap.

They will use the engine to generate electricity.

He's right semantically, recovery is only through braking since otherwise that's "lost" to heat. But, energy will also be converted/stored in the batteries through burning gas and using the motor as a generator. He knows that and I'm sure has read the many pages of posts by you and others in this thread.

[BassVirolla]

Energy recovery will solely rely on kinetic energy from braking.

Kinetic energy from braking will not get the allowed amount of recovery per lap.

They will use the engine to generate electricity.

He's right semantically, recovery is only through braking since otherwise that's "lost" to heat. But, energy will also be converted/stored in the batteries through burning gas and using the motor as a generator. He knows that and I'm sure has read the many pages of posts by you and others in this thread.

Even more, the ruleset states about torque demand from the power unit. They can (and I think they will) put a MGUK load against engine torque, outputting a net zero (or so) PU output. I strongly think that the lift and coast will be massive and will sound funny.