2025 McLaren F1 Team

[f1isgood]

Aside from Monza and baku having low df configuration which we struggle with and being tracks that will punish you a little if you run stiffer, they also have very long straights, which punishes cars with lower top speed.

And even then we had the pace for the front row.

That's not bad performance for what seem to be two of the worst tracks for us.

Vegas will hurt too.

Actually how much km/h is McLaren slower than Red Bull now at Monza and Baku? With and without DRS - is there any data?

[mwillems]

Aside from Monza and baku having low df configuration which we struggle with and being tracks that will punish you a little if you run stiffer, they also have very long straights, which punishes cars with lower top speed.

And even then we had the pace for the front row.

That's not bad performance for what seem to be two of the worst tracks for us.

Vegas will hurt too.

Actually how much km/h is McLaren slower than Red Bull now at Monza and Baku? With and without DRS - is there any data?

I was talking about general characteristics of the car, each race is different but in general we dont have quite the same top speed and its not just setup.

I think Marshall and or Stella referred to something they are doing with internal airflow and cooling.

[Badger]

Aside from Monza and baku having low df configuration which we struggle with and being tracks that will punish you a little if you run stiffer, they also have very long straights, which punishes cars with lower top speed.

And even then we had the pace for the front row.

That's not bad performance for what seem to be two of the worst tracks for us.

Vegas will hurt too.

Actually how much km/h is McLaren slower than Red Bull now at Monza and Baku? With and without DRS - is there any data?

From my observations on F1 Multi-viewer. The straight line performance is very similar when accounting for wing levels. What distorts the picture slightly is that RB has a bit more efficient DRS and they usually run less wing in high speed circuits (see Monza, Spa). On the other hand the Mercedes engine is slightly stronger than the Honda, the ERS system has more deployment in race mode which helps straight line performance end of straight.

The characterisation of the two cars as polar opposites on the drag scale is overstated and I think a remnant of the early parts of this regulation cycle, when RB was truly low drag and McLaren high. Also the Mercedes engine seems to have taken a step since 2022, especially the ERS system which many considered a Honda strength initially.

[AR3-GP]

Stella:

They seemed to have made an improvement with their car, because the way they won Monza was something more, for what was our assessment, than simply a car that adapts well at low drag. They were fast in the corners, medium speed and low speed corners, fast in the straights.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/andrea-st ... al-letters

[CjC]

Mekies:
"Then, after trying to take it to the next step, you will be back to tracks with medium-speed corners, where we were killed by McLaren two races ago in Zandvoort. The gap was very significant. Also in Spa – we left Spa thinking that they were half a second faster than us, even though Max won the sprint.”

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/weds- ... /10762019/

[AR3-GP]

Which one do you think is bluffing?

[mwillems]

Both

[mwillems]

Aside from Monza and baku having low df configuration which we struggle with and being tracks that will punish you a little if you run stiffer, they also have very long straights, which punishes cars with lower top speed.

And even then we had the pace for the front row.

That's not bad performance for what seem to be two of the worst tracks for us.

Vegas will hurt too.

Actually how much km/h is McLaren slower than Red Bull now at Monza and Baku? With and without DRS - is there any data?

From my observations on F1 Multi-viewer. The straight line performance is very similar when accounting for wing levels. What distorts the picture slightly is that RB has a bit more efficient DRS and they usually run less wing in high speed circuits (see Monza, Spa). On the other hand the Mercedes engine is slightly stronger than the Honda, the ERS system has more deployment in race mode which helps straight line performance end of straight.

The characterisation of the two cars as polar opposites on the drag scale is overstated and I think a remnant of the early parts of this regulation cycle, when RB was truly low drag and McLaren high. Also the Mercedes engine seems to have taken a step since 2022, especially the ERS system which many considered a Honda strength initially.

Hopefully you aren't thinking i was characterising them as polar opposites

Not sure who has, to be fair, just that they Macca is a touch slower, particularly if like at Monza the exit is from a high speed corners for the home straight.

[CjC]

Both

100% Classic pressure management.

[Badger]

Actually how much km/h is McLaren slower than Red Bull now at Monza and Baku? With and without DRS - is there any data?

From my observations on F1 Multi-viewer. The straight line performance is very similar when accounting for wing levels. What distorts the picture slightly is that RB has a bit more efficient DRS and they usually run less wing in high speed circuits (see Monza, Spa). On the other hand the Mercedes engine is slightly stronger than the Honda, the ERS system has more deployment in race mode which helps straight line performance end of straight.

The characterisation of the two cars as polar opposites on the drag scale is overstated and I think a remnant of the early parts of this regulation cycle, when RB was truly low drag and McLaren high. Also the Mercedes engine seems to have taken a step since 2022, especially the ERS system which many considered a Honda strength initially.

Hopefully you aren't thinking i was characterising them as polar opposites

Not sure who has, to be fair, just that they Macca is a touch slower, particularly if like at Monza the exit is from a high speed corners for the home straight.

It wasn’t in response to your comment. But it’s a presumption I’ve seen before, and it was sort of implied in the question I was responding to.

In Monza RB ran less wing and were faster. Baku would’ve been an interesting comparison as they were running more similar wing levels. Unfortunately the McLaren was running in traffic the entire race so we didn’t get to see a real comp. I suspect it would have been very even.

[AR3-GP]

Both

It can't be both. One will prove to have bluffed. Either Stella is correct and Red Bull show something which is worth more than just the low drag package (and Mekies bluffs) or things remain the same as Zandvoort (and Stella bluffs).

[pantherxxx]

Neither Stella or Mekies knows if Red Bull will be strong on high downforce tracks or not. So they're not bluffing, just not sure about it.

[BMMR61]

Both team leaders are making statements as much to their team members as the public - "do not get complacent!" There's been so much in the media hyping the two race swing towards Red Bull and Max, hype that is needed to boost clicks - nothing wrong with that. Especially with a two week break! It's the fans job to FILTER all the news/hype. I have stayed away from a lot of it and I'm catching up today. Yeah a hangover from a shocker of a weekend!

Regards McLaren losing the WDC over the last 7 races of the season it's mathematically very possible, practically very unlikely. I'll give my opinion why.

It's very unlikely that McLaren have lost all its pace for venues and conditions favourable to the MCL39 (esp high DF and hot track).
It's therefore very likely that there will be at MINIMUM two races which will be dominated by McLaren, like 1-2. where Max loses at least 10 points (there goes 20 points) on top of the 69 point lead Oscar has. I'm going out on a limb and predicting more 1-2s for the team, which will put the WDC in their drivers' hands.
However if the RB can repeat it's low DF form at all 7 races (discounting sprints) Max will need to win all with Oscar 3rd to win by a point.

What could come into play is if Lando loses many points to Max, and Oscar not so many, the team will face the awkward position of team orders. That's a long shot - still unlikely. I close my case (for another 2 weeks at least).

[f1isgood]

From my observations on F1 Multi-viewer. The straight line performance is very similar when accounting for wing levels. What distorts the picture slightly is that RB has a bit more efficient DRS and they usually run less wing in high speed circuits (see Monza, Spa). On the other hand the Mercedes engine is slightly stronger than the Honda, the ERS system has more deployment in race mode which helps straight line performance end of straight.

The characterisation of the two cars as polar opposites on the drag scale is overstated and I think a remnant of the early parts of this regulation cycle, when RB was truly low drag and McLaren high. Also the Mercedes engine seems to have taken a step since 2022, especially the ERS system which many considered a Honda strength initially.

Hopefully you aren't thinking i was characterising them as polar opposites

Not sure who has, to be fair, just that they Macca is a touch slower, particularly if like at Monza the exit is from a high speed corners for the home straight.

It wasn’t in response to your comment. But it’s a presumption I’ve seen before, and it was sort of implied in the question I was responding to.

In Monza RB ran less wing and were faster. Baku would’ve been an interesting comparison as they were running more similar wing levels. Unfortunately the McLaren was running in traffic the entire race so we didn’t get to see a real comp. I suspect it would have been very even.

Yeah, generally thanks for the opinions. I never felt McLaren were substantially draggy compared to Red Bull for instance, a couple of kilometers per hour at most towards end of the straight. Indeed, at this point it is well known that Mercedes engines are better. I think this is partly because Honda stopped caring about F1 after 2022 before returning for 2026 with a different team. So from a "reliability" upgrade point of view I don't think Honda did much.

[f1isgood]

Both team leaders are making statements as much to their team members as the public - "do not get complacent!" There's been so much in the media hyping the two race swing towards Red Bull and Max, hype that is needed to boost clicks - nothing wrong with that. Especially with a two week break! It's the fans job to FILTER all the news/hype. I have stayed away from a lot of it and I'm catching up today. Yeah a hangover from a shocker of a weekend!

Regards McLaren losing the WDC over the last 7 races of the season it's mathematically very possible, practically very unlikely. I'll give my opinion why.

It's very unlikely that McLaren have lost all its pace for venues and conditions favourable to the MCL39 (esp high DF and hot track).
It's therefore very likely that there will be at MINIMUM two races which will be dominated by McLaren, like 1-2. where Max loses at least 10 points (there goes 20 points) on top of the 69 point lead Oscar has. I'm going out on a limb and predicting more 1-2s for the team, which will put the WDC in their drivers' hands.
However if the RB can repeat it's low DF form at all 7 races (discounting sprints) Max will need to win all with Oscar 3rd to win by a point.

What could come into play is if Lando loses many points to Max, and Oscar not so many, the team will face the awkward position of team orders. That's a long shot - still unlikely. I close my case (for another 2 weeks at least).

It would take multiple DNFs for PIA and NOR and a perfect season for Verstappen to win. While the latter is definitely possible the former totally requires a massive disaster and bottle of the highest proportions -- something to an extent we have never seen in F1.