Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

[peewon]

Ferrari, like Aston Martin, has made a choice different from all other teams. It has opted for synthetic fuels rather than bio fuels. Also a make or break gamble. So there is some uncertainty with them too. Some people seem to think its a mistake but honestly that seems a bit premature.

I can only remember reports saying it's just PETRONAS that took the biofuel route. All other having synthetic fuel. And that PETRONAS is/was struggling compared to the rest.

Yes so I have got it reverse in the post. I'll edit the change. Ferrari is the only one going for bio fuels while all others have opted for synthetic fuels. But it's Shell which is the outlier not Petronas.

[Ashwinv16]

Ferrari, like Aston Martin, has made a choice different from all other teams. It has opted for synthetic fuels rather than bio fuels. Also a make or break gamble. So there is some uncertainty with them too. Some people seem to think its a mistake but honestly that seems a bit premature.

I can only remember reports saying it's just PETRONAS that took the biofuel route. All other having synthetic fuel. And that PETRONAS is/was struggling compared to the rest.

Yes so I have got it reverse in the post. I'll edit the change. Ferrari is the only one going for bio fuels while all others have opted for synthetic fuels. But it's Shell which is the outlier not Petronas.

Yeah, but really research shows the difference will be minimal. The issue is mostly the octane rating inconsistency with biofuel so can grenade the engine but Koinegsegg figured out a way to deal with this back in 2010's and many cars in Brazil now have a similar ecu mapping(Flex fuel sensory and tuning) thanks to Petrobras and there is only one other major fuel company they are collaborating with for this tech....Shell. Thus makes sense they went that route cause every other fuel manufacture are at least 10 years behind...except ExxonMobil which is a one of the world leader in Ethanol's but only E20's (which is why i think RedBull might be using bio fuels as well.)

Aramco meanwhile leads (somewhat...) the carbon capture tech but still some work to do but it's clear the synthetic fuel has an advantage in that it's more stable but it might not be as power efficient as the ethanol (which itself is like a 40% drop from regular gasoline unless engine is specially tuned). However what makes synthetic fuel the easier choice is that many teams will have access to technology from CRI - Carbon Recycling International, except Aramco which ahs it's own already so easier to worm from there.

Honestly the whole talks about fuel being the main factor will die down within the first six races cause the chemical factors are easily interchangeable and replicable so they will converge quickly.

[madridista]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... ut-feeling

Adrian Newey believes Aston Martin “won’t be ready” to fight for the F1 2026 title despite the opportunity presented by the new regulations next season.

That is the claim of Riccardo Patrese, the former Williams driver, who says Newey was keen to downplay expectations for F1 2026 when the pair spoke at this summer’s Goodwood Festival of Speed.

He told a gambling platform: “I spoke with Adrian at Goodwood and he feels that next year they won’t be ready and not raise expectations.

“If they come out and they are ready, it looks better for him!

But he seemed honest when he said they would not be ready to go for the Championship.

“But you never know, because Adrian is incredible.

“Probably in his heart, he hopes to be ready already next year, but he doesn’t want to say that.”

[diffuser]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... ut-feeling

Adrian Newey believes Aston Martin “won’t be ready” to fight for the F1 2026 title despite the opportunity presented by the new regulations next season.

That is the claim of Riccardo Patrese, the former Williams driver, who says Newey was keen to downplay expectations for F1 2026 when the pair spoke at this summer’s Goodwood Festival of Speed.

He told a gambling platform: “I spoke with Adrian at Goodwood and he feels that next year they won’t be ready and not raise expectations.

“If they come out and they are ready, it looks better for him!

But he seemed honest when he said they would not be ready to go for the Championship.

“But you never know, because Adrian is incredible.

“Probably in his heart, he hopes to be ready already next year, but he doesn’t want to say that.”

It always depends on how everyone else.

[selvam_e2002]

I think 75% of with Honda and 25% with Newey. If Honda come up with some surprises then we are the WDC and WCC till next rule change.

[Ashwinv16]

I think 75% of with Honda and 25% with Newey. If Honda come up with some surprises then we are the WDC and WCC till next rule change.

Honda's engine will continue to be the best cause the tech is pretty much going to be a carry over from they indycar engine just with smaller bore and one less turbo along with their carry over from what they learned with the current tech (the engine regs are very similar to IndyCar in terms of creating power without mgu-h which is why Cadillac's coming in as well and both teams (along with Ford and Toyota*) are likely to lobby for F1 to add one extra turbo for 2029 but that's for the future)

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

[lio007]

I think 75% of with Honda and 25% with Newey. If Honda come up with some surprises then we are the WDC and WCC till next rule change.

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

[bluechris]

I think 75% of with Honda and 25% with Newey. If Honda come up with some surprises then we are the WDC and WCC till next rule change.

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

MB feeds snake oil about their new engine some time now to lure people to work for them where the biggest one they tried was Max.
Let's see what next year will bring.

[Bill]

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

MB feeds snake oil about their new engine some time now to lure people to work for them where the biggest one they tried was Max.
Let's see what next year will bring.

Merc should focus on making there current pu reliable. The have six retirements and will likely cost Norris a championship

[diffuser]

I think 75% of with Honda and 25% with Newey. If Honda come up with some surprises then we are the WDC and WCC till next rule change.

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

Do you think that insiders have any real data? What would real data even look like to be able to know electrical bits are working better or worse? Do you think that Honda insiders have access to Merc Insiders data and vise versa? What's the process in drawing these conclusions? or are they just conclusions being drawn from Merc saying "Oh yeah, we're really rocking it!" and Honda says " We have alot of work to do!"

The MGU-H isn't really part of the ICE but has been part of the turbo. So, they've just removed the MGU-H from the turbo and, have lost the ability to spin up the turbo to prevent lag. That will likely affect turbo sizing. Aside from that the ICE is the same minus improvements they've figured out. The Specs are the same minus the changes to fuel/fuel flow.

The Batteries are the same kind of deal they are just allowed to store more...unless Honda are going solid state?

The MGU-K is the same MGU-K that they've been building on since 2014 only bigger. I can't see it being that much of a stretch. MGU-K can switch from regeneration to power within the MGU-K motor controller with a change of direction of power flow through it. That isn't changing. As far as I understand. it can only do 1 or the other.

What's left is when it can deploy and when it can regenerate. That's just software manipulating the power flow through the MGU-K motor controller and power it applies to the ICE. The have been doing all this for years with Engine Maps. So the maps are different but again not a stretch.

[Ashwinv16]

...

The electrical bits is gonna be a issue. Mercedes is currently said to be very far ahead along with Ferrari. Honda is said to be close to sorting it but they are going to work very late into the introduction to ensure reliability, something they missed in 2015 causing the mess. Lets's see...

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

Do you think that insiders have any real data? What would real data even look like to be able to know electrical bits are working better or worse? Do you think that Honda insiders have access to Merc Insiders data and vise versa? What's the process in drawing these conclusions? or are they just conclusions being drawn from Merc saying "Oh yeah, we're really rocking it!" and Honda says " We have alot of work to do!"

The MGU-H isn't really part of the ICE but has been part of the turbo. So, they've just removed the MGU-H from the turbo and, have lost the ability to spin up the turbo to prevent lag. That will likely affect turbo sizing. Aside from that the ICE is the same minus improvements they've figured out. The Specs are the same minus the changes to fuel/fuel flow.

The Batteries are the same kind of deal they are just allowed to store more...unless Honda are going solid state?

The MGU-K is the same MGU-K that they've been building on since 2014 only bigger. I can't see it being that much of a stretch. MGU-K can switch from regeneration to power within the MGU-K motor controller with a change of direction of power flow through it. That isn't changing. As far as I understand. it can only do 1 or the other.

What's left is when it can deploy and when it can regenerate. That's just software manipulating the power flow through the MGU-K motor controller and power it applies to the ICE. The have been doing all this for years with Engine Maps. So the maps are different but again not a stretch.

Mguk is a standard part for 2026 or can teams develop their own system ?

[diffuser]

Do you have that from real insiders or is this from the "public" media-rumors?

Do you think that insiders have any real data? What would real data even look like to be able to know electrical bits are working better or worse? Do you think that Honda insiders have access to Merc Insiders data and vise versa? What's the process in drawing these conclusions? or are they just conclusions being drawn from Merc saying "Oh yeah, we're really rocking it!" and Honda says " We have alot of work to do!"

The MGU-H isn't really part of the ICE but has been part of the turbo. So, they've just removed the MGU-H from the turbo and, have lost the ability to spin up the turbo to prevent lag. That will likely affect turbo sizing. Aside from that the ICE is the same minus improvements they've figured out. The Specs are the same minus the changes to fuel/fuel flow.

The Batteries are the same kind of deal they are just allowed to store more...unless Honda are going solid state?

The MGU-K is the same MGU-K that they've been building on since 2014 only bigger. I can't see it being that much of a stretch. MGU-K can switch from regeneration to power within the MGU-K motor controller with a change of direction of power flow through it. That isn't changing. As far as I understand. it can only do 1 or the other.

What's left is when it can deploy and when it can regenerate. That's just software manipulating the power flow through the MGU-K motor controller and power it applies to the ICE. The have been doing all this for years with Engine Maps. So the maps are different but again not a stretch.

Mguk is a standard part for 2026 or can teams develop their own system ?

Made by PU manufacturer.

[Rikrikrik]

Honda is a HUGE Company and they will make a decent engine. the main problem about their engine in 2015 was the "zero" or "more compact" concept from Mclaren in that case and Honda nedded to build their engine how Mclaren wants for that concept of the car, and not how they want. After change to RedBull, Honda had more freedom and transparency with redbull and all people today knows how good is Honda's engine today. I think Honda will build a very good engine for next year.

[diffuser]

Honda is a HUGE Company and they will make a decent engine. the main problem about their engine in 2015 was the "zero" or "more compact" concept from Mclaren in that case and Honda nedded to build their engine how Mclaren wants for that concept of the car, and not how they want. After change to RedBull, Honda had more freedom and transparency with redbull and all people today knows how good is Honda's engine today. I think Honda will build a very good engine for next year.

The problems Honda had back then are well-documented, and you're not entirely right. The issue wasn't the constraints McLaren placed on Honda, as you suggested. The real problem was that Honda started too late on the new regulations the year before. Remember, Honda wasn't involved in F1 prior to that.

They did the best they could with the power unit (PU) in a short timeframe, but they didn’t have much opportunity to test—especially under the restrictions McLaren imposed. Once they got into F1 and began running the PU, they realized they had made some significant mistakes. Unfortunately, the token system at the time prevented them from making radical changes to fix those issues.

In the final year before Honda left McLaren, the token restrictions were removed, and Honda completely redesigned the PU. Naturally, with a brand-new design, they experienced several reliability problems. However, by the time the Honda PU was installed in Toro Rosso the following year, most of those issues had been resolved.

That year, their main concern was the number of races the split turbo could last before failing. The failures were largely due to imbalances in the turbo’s axial shaft. Honda eventually resolved that problem with help from their aeronautics division.

[RedNEO]

Honda is a HUGE Company and they will make a decent engine. the main problem about their engine in 2015 was the "zero" or "more compact" concept from Mclaren in that case and Honda nedded to build their engine how Mclaren wants for that concept of the car, and not how they want. After change to RedBull, Honda had more freedom and transparency with redbull and all people today knows how good is Honda's engine today. I think Honda will build a very good engine for next year.

The problems Honda had back then are well-documented, and you're not entirely right. The issue wasn't the constraints McLaren placed on Honda, as you suggested. The real problem was that Honda started too late on the new regulations the year before. Remember, Honda wasn't involved in F1 prior to that.

They did the best they could with the power unit (PU) in a short timeframe, but they didn’t have much opportunity to test—especially under the restrictions McLaren imposed. Once they got into F1 and began running the PU, they realized they had made some significant mistakes. Unfortunately, the token system at the time prevented them from making radical changes to fix those issues.

In the final year before Honda left McLaren, the token restrictions were removed, and Honda completely redesigned the PU. Naturally, with a brand-new design, they experienced several reliability problems. However, by the time the Honda PU was installed in Toro Rosso the following year, most of those issues had been resolved.

That year, their main concern was the number of races the split turbo could last before failing. The failures were largely due to imbalances in the turbo’s axial shaft. Honda eventually resolved that problem with help from their aeronautics division.

So is history repeating itself with Honda starting late again? I hope they have had enough time to catch up, you don’t want to give Mercedes a major head start as it took them quite a few years to catch back up the last time. Who knows what will happen with these engines though.