2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Vettel165]

There is no reason to complain, not winning today is deserved, I think, even if the pace on H was excellent, as they missed running on M. Even if Max managed P1 in turn1, the S would have worked out only if atleast 2 guys around were on S, turned out they all were on M. The gamble on starting with S depended on 'others'. Not a big complaint, just that such things happen to a team that likes to gamble (unlike McLaren who always play it safe and conservative). Nevertheless, this S starting is exactly what I had expressed my doubts about, before the race started.

Anyway, considering the big picture, the car has definitely improved. After the race-ruining wing choices debacles at Silverstone and Spa (went for the opposite weather) and the disaster at Hungary, this is the result :

Zandvoort : P2
Monza : P1
Baku : P1
Singapore : P2

Would the team and Max and the people in this thread have taken this, before the summer break ?
A resounding yes.
The only reason there is some disappointment about today, is because of the huge hype that Max is in WDC contention. It's not good from a psychology perspective, to cling onto a hope that heavily relies on miracle (McLaren crashing). That miracle already happened in Baku.

Indeed Max actually managed to get 86 points in the last 4 races. Piastri just 52 points and Norris 39 points. So he gained 36 on Piastri and 47 on Norris. Really didnt expect this pace after Hungary, what a difference.

[AR3-GP]

Except it has peak wings, meaning the car balance will be unfavourable for RB who like running smaller wings for front-rear balance. It’s also higher deg.

Mexico is at high altitude. Less air density. That means the cars actually only generate Monza levels of downforce, despite the big wings. That’s the reason that cars reach 350km/h in Mexico with huge wings.

I know, but the balance front to rear will be the same as on a track like Singapore as you bolt on your biggest wings front and rear. On a track like Baku you have a small rear wing and that gives you more scope to add front grip by putting on say a medium front wing. Think about it in terms of front to rear balance instead of downforce generation.

I didn’t see any balance issues today. There were downshifts making the rear loose on corner entry. This is a calibration problem, not an aerodynamic problem. It’s not perfect, but there is potential. They didn't do much long running in FP2 because of the red flags. There were updates. There is always fine tuning to be done.

[basti313]

Even if Max managed P1 in turn1, the S would have worked out only if atleast 2 guys around were on S, turned out they all were on M.

No. P1 in turn1 would most probably have ended in P1 in the end. There was no overtaking and there was no room for overcuts as the tire wear was quite there and Ferrari forced the pit of Rus.

Anyway, considering the big picture, the car has definitely improved.

I am more questioning myself if this is true. The performance between Merc, Bull and Ferrari did non really change. Still quite neck to neck with Ferrari a bit behind, track specific. Tsunoda still useless, so I doubt that the car is "better". It is just that McLaren is no longer finishing the races 20sec ahead. Instead of questioning a magic bullet for Merc and RedBull, I would ask the question what the FIA did to that beautiful McLaren.

[venkyhere]

It’s disappointing not to win because Mclaren and its drivers look rattled since Baku. Today Norris drove into Piastri at T3. Piastri had a 6 second pitstop. Piastri was whining to the team, and the tension is rising between the two drivers. They will take each other out in one of these last races. It’s coming.

Yeah, but we shouldn't expect miracles from Redbull, given that there was no meaningful long running in any FP session. As we very well know, the team relies on long run data a lot, to setup the car (much more so than other teams).

w.r.t McLaren being rattled, I just posted in the McLaren thread how a double DNF is likely for them in the next 6 races since the gloves are going to come off as the WCC is over. Their drivers don't owe the team anything from now on.

[euv2]

I agree that COTA is better, but it’s not all good. The McLaren loves long radius corners where they can use their mid corner strength. COTA has a lot more of those than Singapore. They will be very strong there too, and likely faster towards the end of stints. Max will need to lead early and control from the front, preferably with a buffer to the McLarens.

The track I have the least hope for is Mexico. Another deg track where RB will be struggling relative to McLaren in the race.

Yeah, I'm not fully on the COTA hype train, there's way too many long radius corners in sector 3 where the MCL will make up huge chunks of time even compared to the improved red bull. RB21 will be good in sectors 1 and 2 though. The wing level for RBR will be very interesting, I don't think they'll opt for the low downforce one even though it will perform really well in the 1st two sectors, the mid speed downforce deficit to MCL in sector 3 will be too much.

From what I've seen today, the tyre degradation compared to MCL hasn't left me satisfied, hot tracks will be a problem.

Ferrari could also suddenly wake up in COTA. It's a sprint weekend too, not much time to dial in the perfect setup.

[search]

even honda is getting fed up with their antics Hadjah is having problems with his pu

as you mention it: Lawson had to swap his PU due to some cracks discovered after qualifying as well today, by the way, as confirmed by Bayer on German tv before the start.

[AR3-GP]

I agree that COTA is better, but it’s not all good. The McLaren loves long radius corners where they can use their mid corner strength. COTA has a lot more of those than Singapore. They will be very strong there too, and likely faster towards the end of stints. Max will need to lead early and control from the front, preferably with a buffer to the McLarens.

The track I have the least hope for is Mexico. Another deg track where RB will be struggling relative to McLaren in the race.

Yeah, I'm not fully on the COTA hype train, there's way too many long radius corners in sector 3 where the MCL will make up huge chunks of time even compared to the improved red bull. RB21 will be good in sectors 1 and 2 though. The wing level for RBR will be very interesting, I don't think they'll opt for the low downforce one even though it will perform really well in the 1st two sectors, the mid speed downforce deficit to MCL in sector 3 will be too much.

From what I've seen today, the tyre degradation compared to MCL hasn't left me satisfied, hot tracks will be a problem.

Ferrari could also suddenly wake up in COTA. It's a sprint weekend too, not much time to dial in the perfect setup.

Max won the COTA sprint and beat both Mclarens at COTA last year in a much worse car than the current RB21.

My expectation is that Max will sweep the COTA weekend. Mercedes is bad in high speed corners. Cota is notorious for plank wear disqualifications so Ferrari will have to lift their car. Stella also doesn’t think COTA will favor Mclaren.

[euv2]

I agree that COTA is better, but it’s not all good. The McLaren loves long radius corners where they can use their mid corner strength. COTA has a lot more of those than Singapore. They will be very strong there too, and likely faster towards the end of stints. Max will need to lead early and control from the front, preferably with a buffer to the McLarens.

The track I have the least hope for is Mexico. Another deg track where RB will be struggling relative to McLaren in the race.

Yeah, I'm not fully on the COTA hype train, there's way too many long radius corners in sector 3 where the MCL will make up huge chunks of time even compared to the improved red bull. RB21 will be good in sectors 1 and 2 though. The wing level for RBR will be very interesting, I don't think they'll opt for the low downforce one even though it will perform really well in the 1st two sectors, the mid speed downforce deficit to MCL in sector 3 will be too much.

From what I've seen today, the tyre degradation compared to MCL hasn't left me satisfied, hot tracks will be a problem.

Ferrari could also suddenly wake up in COTA. It's a sprint weekend too, not much time to dial in the perfect setup.

Max won the COTA sprint and beat both Mclarens at COTA last year in a much worse car than the current RB21.

My expectation is that Max will sweep the COTA weekend. Mercedes is bad in high speed corners. Cota is notorious for plank wear disqualifications so Ferrari will have to lift their car. Stella also doesn’t think COTA will favor Mclaren.

We'll see, for me compared to RB20 this iteration of RB21 is less dominant in high speed corners, slightly better top speed (2-3kmph), about the same in medium speed (worse compared to this MCL) and better in slow speeds. It will be close.

Surprised, Stella said that. If the RB21 is indeed better it bodes well for the rest of the season, since COTA is a very well-rounded track that will test the balance.

[napoleon1981]

Even if Max managed P1 in turn1, the S would have worked out only if atleast 2 guys around were on S, turned out they all were on M.

No. P1 in turn1 would most probably have ended in P1 in the end. There was no overtaking and there was no room for overcuts as the tire wear was quite there and Ferrari forced the pit of Rus.

Anyway, considering the big picture, the car has definitely improved.

I am more questioning myself if this is true. The performance between Merc, Bull and Ferrari did non really change. Still quite neck to neck with Ferrari a bit behind, track specific. Tsunoda still useless, so I doubt that the car is "better". It is just that McLaren is no longer finishing the races 20sec ahead. Instead of questioning a magic bullet for Merc and RedBull, I would ask the question what the FIA did to that beautiful McLaren.

tsunoda is not useless he didnt have the new front wing that correct the understeer .the car for him is at hungary level were redbull struggled. the team revolve around the dutch sausage you guys like it like that if the other guy got same equipment then you hero would would lose his shine.you cant have it both way.yuki is a known quantity he never had problem is slower vcarb. redbull have no excuse not field both wing.even honda is getting fed up with their antics Hadjah is having problems with his pu ,maybe they they should do a Lawson to him and pretend he has turbo problems and make sure he doesn't leave the garage.

Yuki has been the whole year terrible, with or without the same parts. An occasional OKish performance, i.e. he scores a point or 2, and people are like, see it was Mekkies now Yuki has the same equipment, things will change, and then its bad again. He finished behind cars he should have been miles ahead of, with or without new wing.

[AR3-GP]

We'll see, for me compared to RB20 this iteration of RB21 is less dominant in high speed corners, slightly better top speed (2-3kmph), about the same in medium speed (worse compared to this MCL) and better in slow speeds. It will be close.

Surprised, Stella said that. If the RB21 is indeed better it bodes well for the rest of the season, since COTA is a very well-rounded track that will test the balance.

The old car + Max effect was only competitive in high speed corners (Japan, Jeddah, Imola, Silverstone) and worthless everywhere else. What do you think will happen now that the car is much more “together”?

This car can fight on every remaining circuit.

[Jambier]

They are now only 10 points behind Ferrari, and have a better car… but only one driver

Yuki is not destroying the car but his slow pace may cost P3 in the Wcc

[AR3-GP]

I really think the hard tire stint was underrated. Max was catching Russell (who reported struggling) with older tires, and when the Mclarens finally stopped, they hardly managed to go much quicker despite fresher tires. Most of Piastri's final stint in clear air isn't quicker than what Max did on older tires between lap 25 and lap 35 (just before the lock up). Max was also matching Norris between lap 28 and lap 35 despite 7 lap older tires. After Max pitted for the hards, he was trending towards a second a lap quicker than the Mclarens on the mediums. I didn't see any major problems other than the downshifting and the flat spot. It was closer than it looks. Red Bull's race was compromised by the tire strategy.

[pantherxxx]

COTA shares similar characteristics with Silverstone and Suzuka, especially in terms of corner flow, rhythm, and sustained lateral load. Verstappen was pretty fast on those tracks even before the upgrades.

[AR3-GP]

Starting on softs saved P2. Antonelli in P4, Hamilton in P6, and Hadjar in P8 all lost their places due to slow get aways from the dirty side.

[Badger]

They should honestly just sweep the grid before the race with one of those trucks. No more clean or dirty side.