2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Farnborough wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 13:13
What impact has that ?

We're here now, success, failure, decision and indecision all banked, this year up until now.

It's only forward to find the outcome .... past it irrelevant right now.
Not much of an impact. I'm comparing this situation where both Mclaren drivers were not performing as usual in the last 3 races to last year where the car was just as close as it is right now and they performed much better.

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mwillems
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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It's not easy to compare just like that. The paralell between this and the previous two years seems more clear cut for Oscar, but could still be anecdotal.

But there is the parallel that others also caught up at the end of last year. I think in part, the car this year and last year dislikes similar tracks and towards the end of the year, there are more of them. That's just my take, but Lando did better than Oscar at these tracks and we also had freak conditions at Brazil.

Talking of the remaining 5 races, I expect three of them to be races where we have a strong chance of beating Max. However, if we get to Brazil and are beaten, then I'd say odds are against us.

I'm not optimistic about Mexico at all, but who knows. Feels like we might be on the back foot slightly there. High altitude sector 1 and 3 feels like advantage Red Bull.

It'll be damage limitation I suspect.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

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Farnborough
Farnborough
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 13:31
Farnborough wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 13:13
What impact has that ?

We're here now, success, failure, decision and indecision all banked, this year up until now.

It's only forward to find the outcome .... past it irrelevant right now.
Not much of an impact. I'm comparing this situation where both Mclaren drivers were not performing as usual in the last 3 races to last year where the car was just as close as it is right now and they performed much better.

? [ PRESSURE ]


If they want this, the WDC, then they have to close it out.

CjC
CjC
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Well adding to Mwillems
I hope McLaren don’t manage a full reset in Mexico and ace the qualifying session with a miraculous front row lock out as this is the worst pole to have on the calendar due to the run down to turn 1.
As I’ve come to understand over the years, it’s a tough gig being a Mclaren fan so no doubt the best positions the boys will start from will be 2nd & 4th and will no doubt get out dragged by which ever driver starts 3rd & 5th

:-({|= for me. :lol: :lol:
Last edited by CjC on 23 Oct 2025, 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
Just a fan's point of view

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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That is why I am trying to understand why that low performance. Norris had a car that was equal if not slightly better (in only 3 tracks) to Verstappen last year (as it seems to be right now) and then he had Mclaren doing the same things like gifting Piastri a win in Hungary when Norris needed it (not to count pressure from Ferrari and Mercedes). They both had the same amount of pressure and yet he and Oscar performed much better.

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De Wet
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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https://www.facebook.com/reel/825186563291888


COTA - Qualy laps comparison.

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 13:52
That is why I am trying to understand why that low performance. Norris had a car that was equal if not slightly better (in only 3 tracks) to Verstappen last year (as it seems to be right now) and then he had Mclaren doing the same things like gifting Piastri a win in Hungary when Norris needed it (not to count pressure from Ferrari and Mercedes). They both had the same amount of pressure and yet he and Oscar performed much better.
The psychological position in the team last year was easy, they didn’t HAVE to choose as it was Lando for WDC or nothing, that's at this stage of season. The internecine competition had naturally sorted itself out.

Oscar did publicly commit to support Lando, should it be needed against Max at this point ... if I remember correctly.

This, now, is far more involved with regard to that aspect.

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venkyhere
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Darth-Piekus wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 13:52
Norris had a car that was equal if not slightly better (in only 3 tracks) to Verstappen last year (as it seems to be right now) ....
equal ? slightly better ? :D "as it seems to be right now" :mrgreen:

McL38, once past Miami upgrades, was much better than the RB20 - easier to setup, wider working window over various ride heights and stiffness settings, sharper turn in and traction, etc etc. The only deficiency it had, v/s the RB20 was straightline speed for the same front/rear wing levels. But that was always nullified because inadvertently the McL38 got a much better exit from the previous corner before a straight. The RB21 still hasn't 'surpassed' the McL39, it has 'matched' it.

Pardon me, but I seriously doubt whether your observations are based on data, onboards, body-language shown by the cars OR just based on 'vibes' (like so many podcasters/YT channels) ?

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Darth-Piekus
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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The MCL38 did not get past the RB20 till the upgrades in Hungary which was race 13 and that's a known fact. You can claim it was closer but goten past is supported by noone. Wider working window I will agree and easier to set up but the Red Bull was the overall better car till then. Even after Hungary the difference wasn't much. And if you actually read my sentence correctly I said Norris car was equal if slightly better than the Red Bull of Max. There used to be some charts shown in each GP how cars progressed but can't find the picture right now but the number was in the half a tenth average.

In fact the only advantage the MCL39 had over the rest of the competition was keeping the tyres where they were needed. Over one qualifying lap the distance was 1 to 2 tenths at most an that during hot conditions where you had to handle the tyre. As Andrea Stella said the opposition was a medium upgrade away from top and he was right.

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mwillems
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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As I mentioned, by the end of last year, cars began to converge to a degree. The Ferrari became a threat again in the last several races for instance.

Last year is not directly comparable to this year for the whole host of reasons given, except for the fact that this time of year seems to correlate to a drop in performance from Oscar and possibly that the cars have traits that mean it struggle at several of these latter races. But that is an anecdotal observation.

After that, it's a whole new world. If you're looking for hope or reason, strap yourself in for a bumpy ride.

As to how fast the car was, well, it's different for every driver, and it is subjective.

But the idea there wasn't pressure last year is one that I wouldn't agree with, I think Lando had plenty of pressure last year and got a whole load of grief because of the perception he was bottling it.

Oscar is new to the sharp end though, and for him this is likely a whole new level of pressure. It could be affecting him, or maybe the fact that he has consistently had his poorer results at these races is more than coincidence. On face value Lando has a lot of "tells". Mainly, he tells us :mrgreen: Oscar would be a decent poker player, but you can see his desire to nail this coming through now.
Last edited by mwillems on 23 Oct 2025, 17:28, edited 2 times in total.
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SilviuAgo
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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It was a pleasure reading all the conversation regarding strategy, team orders and other papaya rules :))) Happy to be part of this forum and to see some very reasonable and logic posts.

Regarding Mexico there is an interesting article, is in Italian bat can be easily translated to English:
https://autoracer.it/gp-messico-mclaren ... -cruciale/

And another info with main idea McLaren’s main weakness (high drag) will matter less here:

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mwillems
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Hmm, does the Mclaren favour low speed corners more than the current RB? Sure, we are close to RB but I feel they are slightly ahead at S1,S3 type sections.
It suggests our cooling will be an advantage, but Saturday is so import this year compared to Sunday and we are close to the RB that this to me, isn't a differentiator any more. And in this area the RB also seems to have improved. Isn't this a low deg track anyway?

Q is critical and this is where I think we might pay the penalty over the weekend.

This is the track. Plenty of low speed, a long radius medium speed at 16 leading to the straight (I'd like to think this will help us a lot). Sector 2 has some medium speed and we will hopefully have good pace here too. But still, there is a lot to worry about I think.

This is from last year, so the corners will be slightly faster this year.

Image

I think they lifted that from the Mercedes site, but in case they didn't, here is the source

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/114 ... ix-preview

I'm nervous, but it may be unfounded. I'll strap myself in for a bumpy ride, I think
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
23 Oct 2025, 17:40
Hmm, does the Mclaren favour low speed corners more than the current RB? Sure, we are close to RB but I feel they are slightly ahead at S1,S3 type sections.
It suggests our cooling will be an advantage, but Saturday is so import this year compared to Sunday and we are close to the RB that this to me, isn't a differentiator any more. And in this area the RB also seems to have improved.

Q is critical and this is where I think we might pay the penalty over the weekend.

This is the track. Plenty of low speed, a long radius medium speed at 16 leading to the straight (I'd like to think this will help us a lot). Sector 2 has some medium speed and we will hopefully have good pace here too. But still, there is a lot to worry about I think.

This is from last year, so the corners will be slightly faster this year.

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/autodro ... 2275_h.jpg

I think they lifted that from the Mercedes site, but in case they didn't, here is the source

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/114 ... ix-preview

I'm nervous, but it may be unfounded. I'll strap myself in for a bumpy ride, I think
You have to take in consideration kerb riding as well, which is a definite 'ace' up McLaren's sleeve. Remember watching the T16-T17 shots of Norris chasing Max in the Singapore race, how easily the McLaren was climbing the inside kerb of 17 and gaining 'free' time, whilst Max was carefull avoiding it ? Mexico is a kerb fest.

edit : forgot to mention which race
Last edited by venkyhere on 23 Oct 2025, 18:24, edited 1 time in total.

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mwillems
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Interesting, I thought that was based on setup. I thought Stella said recently that the kerbs can be our weakness, I guess it is track/setup dependant and not universally true.



Entries to turn 1 and 4 might be rough for us too. Big braking zones into low speed corners.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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venkyhere
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Re: 2025 McLaren F1 Team

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Yes, it's based on setup, as I understand, McLaren can afford to run a much softer setup for slow corner dominated tracks, since they have a wide working range of ride heights. Strange that Stella made that comment, it was in Singapore race that we saw how benign the McL39 was on kerbs (I forgot to mention which T17 I was talking about in my post, edited it to specify which track it was on) - if you can rewatch it, watch one of the laps where the TV coverage showed T17 (looking front on) with Max and Lando back-to-back passing through there. Another stellar example is T23 kerb in Jeddah - the McL39 was a class above when it was able to simply smash through it, while other cars were getting severely 'jiggled' doing the same thing and they resorted to just 'half-ride' that T23 (watch 1:04 to 1:06 = T23, https://www.formula1.com/en/video/ghost ... 5538230907 , and look how Piastri 'gained' through T23)