2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

It is probably because he cut the track and increased the gap significantly.

Part of it is that Verstappen went off as well and then had to fight Bearman.

But I think it is obvious Hamilton gained, they should have told him to back off until Verstappen or Bearman reached him.

[basti313]

Lewis wasn’t penalized for gaining advantage but for not following the race director procedure.

https://i.postimg.cc/d1rj580p/image.png

I stand corrected and this somehow makes it even worse… half of the top 10 gained advantages today by cutting, only he was punished, and again for being pushed off track. At least the race director note would have been black and white…

No and no.

He was punished, because he did not give back the position. Everyone else did.
He was also not pushed off, he was too fast.

[basti313]

Wait so Hamilton's penalty wasn't even for the run off?!

No.

That's crazy..

No.

how did Verstappen escape being penalized twice?

Verstappen did not "escape", he was never investigated.

He pushed Hamilton off

No, Ham was investigated correctly for causing a colission in T1. Verstappen was alongside on the apex, so had the right of room. Ham did not have right of room. Everything well explained in the stewarding document.

and then he sped under the double yellow flags at the end.

Where is any proof of that? Was it even double yellow?

They need to release the full stewarding documents for things that happen in the race,

The release them on the FIA homepage.

what is their logic for giving Hamilton a penalty there?

Explained above and in the documents. He passed Ver off track and thus had to give back the position.

[Luscion]

https://i.postimg.cc/d1rj580p/image.png

I stand corrected and this somehow makes it even worse… half of the top 10 gained advantages today by cutting, only he was punished, and again for being pushed off track. At least the race director note would have been black and white…

No and no.

He was punished, because he did not give back the position. Everyone else did.
He was also not pushed off, he was too fast.

Charles never gave back his position

[basti313]

I stand corrected and this somehow makes it even worse… half of the top 10 gained advantages today by cutting, only he was punished, and again for being pushed off track. At least the race director note would have been black and white…

No and no.

He was punished, because he did not give back the position. Everyone else did.
He was also not pushed off, he was too fast.

Charles never gave back his position

That was an intra Ferrari issue.
i do not like the "rule", that they leave this to the teams. But it is what it is. Pleople here can not claim "inconsistent stewarding" if the stewards are consistent, but the rules are not good. Blame the sender, not the messanger.
Same for T1 Ver vs. Ham. This is "lex Hamilton", what lead to these stupid rules.

[Dee]

The only thing that needs to be clarified is;

Do you need to give back only 1 position if you have gone off track and gained an advantage or do you need to give back the number of positions you gained while going off track?

Max gained 1 position at the start - gave it back - gaining nothing - no penalty

Charles gained 2 positions at the start - gave back 1 - gaining 1 position - no penalty

Lewis gained 1 position after leaving the track - did not give it back - gaining 1 position - penalty

Max and Lewis are clear cut.

Charles is not. Did the FIA just put up their arms then and say he already gave back one place and we are not getting involved in intra-team penalties like they generally do and it was up to Ferrari then to fix it?

[basti313]

The only thing that needs to be clarified is;

No...simply not, this is clear.

Do you need to give back only 1 position if you have gone off track and gained an advantage or do you need to give back the number of positions you gained while going off track?

Yes, if you look into the back field it is very clear.

Charles is not.

??? Reading issue?
Charles is very clear. Much more clear than anyone else.

[Dee]

The only thing that needs to be clarified is;

No...simply not, this is clear.

Do you need to give back only 1 position if you have gone off track and gained an advantage or do you need to give back the number of positions you gained while going off track?

Yes, if you look into the back field it is very clear.

Charles is not.

??? Reading issue?
Charles is very clear. Much more clear than anyone else.

Nothing you have said here makes sense to me, explain what you mean using more words.

[Badger]

The only thing that needs to be clarified is;

Do you need to give back only 1 position if you have gone off track and gained an advantage or do you need to give back the number of positions you gained while going off track?

Max gained 1 position at the start - gave it back - gaining nothing - no penalty

Charles gained 2 positions at the start - gave back 1 - gaining 1 position - no penalty

Lewis gained 1 position after leaving the track - did not give it back - gaining 1 position - penalty

Max and Lewis are clear cut.

Charles is not. Did the FIA just put up their arms then and say he already gave back one place and we are not getting involved in intra-team penalties like they generally do and it was up to Ferrari then to fix it?

The rule is about going off track and gaining a lasting advantage. So if you gained two positions, you must return two positions. I don’t think the stewards ever got to review Charles at T1, and you can only judge what is put in front of you. The failure is within race control for not referring it to the stewards for what would have been a simple 10s penalty.

[yooogurt]

I dont get it.
Before Lewis cut and gained an advantage, a turn earlier Max did the same to Lewis, so they exchanged positions and everything fell into place, or shouldn't Max have regained his position after his cut?
Get 10 seconds for gaining an advantage over an offender who should have given you back your position? What?

[Juzh]

I dont get it.
Before Lewis cut and gained an advantage, a turn earlier Max did the same to Lewis, so they exchanged positions and everything fell into place, or shouldn't Max have regained his position after his cut?
Get 10 seconds for gaining an advantage over an offender who should have given you back your position? What?

Even if that is the case hamilton gained multiple seconds with that excursion and it was the most egregious cut of them all tbh.

[SiLo]

He pushed Hamilton off

No, Ham was investigated correctly for causing a colission in T1. Verstappen was alongside on the apex, so had the right of room. Ham did not have right of room. Everything well explained in the stewarding document.

And this is the crux of the issue really. The drivers voted for this rule, and it generally makes for really shocking viewing and poor driver behaviour at the apex.

Max has effectively barreled into the corner, crashed into Lewis forcing him off track and is simply not penalised.

We need to be punishing this behaviour, not rewarding it. The rules need to be re-written, but they won't because the show must go on.

[SiLo]

I dont get it.
Before Lewis cut and gained an advantage, a turn earlier Max did the same to Lewis, so they exchanged positions and everything fell into place, or shouldn't Max have regained his position after his cut?
Get 10 seconds for gaining an advantage over an offender who should have given you back your position? What?

Even if that is the case hamilton gained multiple seconds with that excursion and it was the most egregious cut of them all tbh.

Incorrect, he lost time to Leclerc ahead of him.

Just because Max then started fighting Bearman and Russell should have no bearing on this.

[Dee]

He pushed Hamilton off

No, Ham was investigated correctly for causing a colission in T1. Verstappen was alongside on the apex, so had the right of room. Ham did not have right of room. Everything well explained in the stewarding document.

And this is the crux of the issue really. The drivers voted for this rule, and it generally makes for really shocking viewing and poor driver behaviour at the apex.

Max has effectively barreled into the corner, crashed into Lewis forcing him off track and is simply not penalised.

We need to be punishing this behaviour, not rewarding it. The rules need to be re-written, but they won't because the show must go on.

The rules were written by the drivers themselves.

There is a technique called defending.

If there is enough room for a car to come down the inside and be ahead at the apex, than that is a defensive placement issue.

If you want to watch DRS overtakes all race, then that is up to you.

[yooogurt]

Even if that is the case hamilton gained multiple seconds with that excursion and it was the most egregious cut of them all tbh.

Let's assume that Ham hadn't gone on the attack and hadn't cut there and remained behind Max, should Max have given him back the place for his cut at the turn earlier?