2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[RedNEO]

[RedNEO]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

[Rikrikrik]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

Why people think newey will build a fast car with 100% chance? He could make mistakes

[peewon]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

Unfortunately, no matter how good Newey is, if Honda is not close to Mercedes in terms of power unit, it wont matter. Think Red bull during the early days of hybrid era. They were best in aero but nowhere close to winning. In 2026, PU matters even more.

[Nikosar]

Good news : “ No financial penalties were levied to AMR due to these exceptional and unpredictable circumstances and the Cost Cap Administration confirm that there is no accusation or evidence that AMR has sought or obtained any undue advantage as a result of the breach”

[diffuser]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

Unfortunately, no matter how good Newey is, if Honda is not close to Mercedes in terms of power unit, it wont matter. Think Red bull during the early days of hybrid era. They were best in aero but nowhere close to winning. In 2026, PU matters even more.

I have no doubts that Honda will be there. The present restrictions on building PUs is more akin to post 2018 in Hybrid era. In that time, Honda's PU has been among the best. I expect that to continue.

[dren]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

Unfortunately, no matter how good Newey is, if Honda is not close to Mercedes in terms of power unit, it wont matter. Think Red bull during the early days of hybrid era. They were best in aero but nowhere close to winning. In 2026, PU matters even more.

I have no doubts that Honda will be there. The present restrictions on building PUs is more akin to post 2018 in Hybrid era. In that time, Honda's PU has been among the best. I expect that to continue.

I fully expect Honda to deliver, especially on the hybrid/controls side.

[TyreSlip]

Adrian Newey said this about the culture of Aston Martin on James Allen's podcast:

"Once you stop believing that you can do that, then, everything goes wrong, because complacency sets in, laziness sets in, lack of self-belief creeps in. If you’re not careful, blame culture can set in as well. And so that was quite a difficult thing to overturn at Red Bull."

"I won’t say too much, but there is a bit of deja vu at the moment."


It does not sound like there will be any quick turnaround for 2026. It took Newey years to turnaround the former Jaguar team into championship contenders because there were so many bad seeds within the team who hindered growth. And now Newey is now having to turn around an organization that is 2 or 3 times as big as Jaguar was with the same issues.

I dream of a Brawn 2009 surprise season, but I know deep down Aston Martin will probably be around where they are this year. It is unfortunate that Alonso will most likely not be in a position to win with his equipment before retirement.

[peewon]

One thing I'm really looking forward to is pre-season testing and the car reveals. In previous years following Alonso I always got the sinking feeling soon after the cars were launched that Alonso was in another dud while looking over at the competition (especially at whatever Newey was cooking). Next year it will be nice to hopefully be on the other side of that and Alonso can finally be in one of the performant cars.

Unfortunately, no matter how good Newey is, if Honda is not close to Mercedes in terms of power unit, it wont matter. Think Red bull during the early days of hybrid era. They were best in aero but nowhere close to winning. In 2026, PU matters even more.

I have no doubts that Honda will be there. The present restrictions on building PUs is more akin to post 2018 in Hybrid era. In that time, Honda's PU has been among the best. I expect that to continue.

I think its unprecedented in terms of its reliance on battery power. So its not just the combustion component thats critical but also regen system becomes more crucial. There is also a downstream effect on aero with size of brakes, etc based on the efficiency of the regen. Theres also reduction in weight despite bigger batteries so its a design overhaul. I think its a big shift and the next cycle will be an engine formula dominated closer to 2014 than 2018.

[madridista]

I dream of a Brawn 2009 surprise season, but I know deep down Aston Martin will probably be around where they are this year. It is unfortunate that Alonso will most likely not be in a position to win with his equipment before retirement.

This is probably more something for the 26 speculation thread, but imo they should at least be at the front next year, even if not directly as challengers. Something like what mercedes and ferrari were this year at least. Newey still does the fundamentals, Cardile is on board now, and they have the new tunnel and freedom with the engine and gearbox packaging too. If this doesnt get them out of the midfield from the get go, nothing ever will.

I think Newey is smart and will say stuff like this to downplay the expectations for next year and shift the weight a bit away from him in case that expectations arent met from the get go, which is understandable.

[diffuser]

Unfortunately, no matter how good Newey is, if Honda is not close to Mercedes in terms of power unit, it wont matter. Think Red bull during the early days of hybrid era. They were best in aero but nowhere close to winning. In 2026, PU matters even more.

I have no doubts that Honda will be there. The present restrictions on building PUs is more akin to post 2018 in Hybrid era. In that time, Honda's PU has been among the best. I expect that to continue.

I think its unprecedented in terms of its reliance on battery power. So its not just the combustion component thats critical but also regen system becomes more crucial. There is also a downstream effect on aero with size of brakes, etc based on the efficiency of the regen. Theres also reduction in weight despite bigger batteries so its a design overhaul. I think its a big shift and the next cycle will be an engine formula dominated closer to 2014 than 2018.

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

[peewon]

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

I meant that I think this regulation change is as significant a change as 2014 was. So how each PU manufacturer has been performing till now may well be drastically altered in 2026. Honda may well produce a good power unit but its all relative to the competition. So even though they are at par with Mercedes now under current regs, the change in regs is significant enough that its possible that a significant gap could develop between them and Mercedes. Whenever theres a huge overhaul like this, theres also possibilities of loop hole exploitations and if you look at Mercedes history, they always seem to find some loop hole exploits.

[collindsilva]

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

I meant that I think this regulation change is as significant a change as 2014 was. So how each PU manufacturer has been performing till now may well be drastically altered in 2026. Honda may well produce a good power unit but its all relative to the competition. So even though they are at par with Mercedes now under current regs, the change in regs is significant enough that its possible that a significant gap could develop between them and Mercedes. Whenever theres a huge overhaul like this, theres also possibilities of loop hole exploitations and if you look at Mercedes history, they always seem to find some loop hole exploits.

Previously, Wazari San used to provide regular updates on development of the Honda PU and other insider info, unfortunately haven't heard from him for a long time .

[RedNEO]

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

I meant that I think this regulation change is as significant a change as 2014 was. So how each PU manufacturer has been performing till now may well be drastically altered in 2026. Honda may well produce a good power unit but its all relative to the competition. So even though they are at par with Mercedes now under current regs, the change in regs is significant enough that its possible that a significant gap could develop between them and Mercedes. Whenever theres a huge overhaul like this, theres also possibilities of loop hole exploitations and if you look at Mercedes history, they always seem to find some loop hole exploits.

Well Mercedes engine department was led by Andy Cowell back then and there’s already been suggestions he’s helped Honda along with Newey with nailing down their ambitious ideas. Let’s see what happens but I’m hoping Honda can pull a rabbit out of the hat again at the final hour.

[diffuser]

The only difference between 2014 and 2018 was the removal of the token system. That change untied Honda's hands and allowed them to undo all the wrongs they created by jumping into 2014 regs too early and with so little préparation. They were able to completely redesigned the PU for 2018

I meant that I think this regulation change is as significant a change as 2014 was. So how each PU manufacturer has been performing till now may well be drastically altered in 2026. Honda may well produce a good power unit but its all relative to the competition. So even though they are at par with Mercedes now under current regs, the change in regs is significant enough that its possible that a significant gap could develop between them and Mercedes. Whenever theres a huge overhaul like this, theres also possibilities of loop hole exploitations and if you look at Mercedes history, they always seem to find some loop hole exploits.

Yeah I guess.

Merc had been building F1 PUs for years prior to 2014. So when the 2014 regs got finalized in 2010, they immediately started working on the PU for the 2014 regs. Honda didn't decide to jump back into F1 till late 2012, at that point they didn't have anything in F1. They'd been out of the game for at least 5 years. They knew they wouldn't be ready but McLaren having divorced from Merc, pressured Honda. McLaren needed a PU for the 2014 season and Honda had agreed to be that supplier. I don't think anybody had figured out at that time how hard whatever design mistakes they would make going into F1 in 2014 would be to change. The token system limited how much could change from year to year. So if you wanted to move the exhaust ports on the Heads, well that would mean a modification to the intake as well(cause the intake ports would be in the way) and the exhaust manifold. You were only allowed to change 2 parts.....Intake, heads and exhaust manifolds would be 3 parts.

The token system was design to limit spending on PU but in the end it ended up being a lobster trap on the original design. So yeah, circumstances lead to the initial Honda PU being poorly designed from jump. Then the token system made it really hard to correct those design flaws. The CAP now is just how Much money they spend. So even if some team does get it wrong the first year. They can change whatever they want.