Crashgate 2008 in court

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Could it be possible that Massa loses this case and is the one who has to pay for starting this mess?

[bluechris]

Imo he is correct even though nothing will change as matter the results.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Imo he is correct even though nothing will change as matter the results.

I disagree. I think there is absolutely no way to know how the rest of the season, post Singapore, would have panned out had the points been different.

For all we know he himself could have crashed in the Singapore race, he might still have had a problem in the pits etc and then both Ferrari and McLaren would have approached the remaining races differently.

[TimW]

Imo he is correct even though nothing will change as matter the results.

I disagree. I think there is absolutely no way to know how the rest of the season, post Singapore, would have panned out had the points been different.

For all we know he himself could have crashed in the Singapore race, he might still have had a problem in the pits etc and then both Ferrari and McLaren would have approached the remaining races differently.

Its is not about what would have happened without the Singapore fraud. It is about Ecclestone/FOM/FIA having knowledge of it during the season.

The claim is that knowing this, they should have scrapped the Singapore result, not counting the points of the race. WIthout the Singapore result, Massa would be champion.

[bluechris]

Imo he is correct even though nothing will change as matter the results.

I disagree. I think there is absolutely no way to know how the rest of the season, post Singapore, would have panned out had the points been different.

For all we know he himself could have crashed in the Singapore race, he might still have had a problem in the pits etc and then both Ferrari and McLaren would have approached the remaining races differently.

You are right but this doesn't change the fact that the points did count in a fiasco race.

[Ominous]

-snip-

Its is not about what would have happened without the Singapore fraud. It is about Ecclestone/FOM/FIA having knowledge of it during the season.

The claim is that knowing this, they should have scrapped the Singapore result, not counting the points of the race. WIthout the Singapore result, Massa would be champion.

He won't be awarded the title. He'd have a much better chance coming out of retirement and having a go in F1 next year than he would have trying to rewrite history. There is a strong chance the case will be thrown out purely based on limitation. If they don't dismiss it on limitation, he'd still have to convince the court that he'd have won the title if that race result was voided. It's very speculative.

The most probable avenue of him getting compensation would be from the FIA/FOM reaching a private settlement. Ecclestone is a master bullshitter,

[Rodak]

Has an F1 race ever been 'voided'? I don't think there is any rule that would allow a race to just not count. Disqualification of a car or a team certainly, then redistribute the points, but to void the entire result punishes drivers and teams who were not involved in the Renault shenanigans. Massa has no case to 'void' the entire race.

[bluechris]

Has an F1 race ever been 'voided'? I don't think there is any rule that would allow a race to just not count. Disqualification of a car or a team certainly, then redistribute the points, but to void the entire result punishes drivers and teams who were not involved in the Renault shenanigans. Massa has no case to 'void' the entire race.

Yeah, as I think it again, you are right. I suppose he needs some extra money.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Has an F1 race ever been 'voided'? I don't think there is any rule that would allow a race to just not count. Disqualification of a car or a team certainly, then redistribute the points, but to void the entire result punishes drivers and teams who were not involved in the Renault shenanigans. Massa has no case to 'void' the entire race.

Agreed. I also think that, if any race were to be a candidate for being voided, it would be a different one than Singapore 08. Rather it would be one where the Race Director made up a whole new set of rules on the fly.

To be clear, I don't think either race should be voided now. Simple highlighting that a race where an FIA representative didn't follow the rules would be more likely to be voided than one where a competitor cheated.