2014-2025 tech for the masses?

[Zynerji]

So. Now that the 2014-2025 hybrid engines that the manufacturers REQUIRED in order to use the R&D for road cars are expiring, will we finally get road versions of these 50+% efficiency engines?!?!? Or is it all still just marketing BS?

2 cyl, v-twin (100-300hp/tq) derivative units with a moderately sized battery/mguh/mguk seems like it would be very sought after in consumer vehicles.

Where are they? And why is everyone OK with their demands and reasoning having been contradictorily ignored?

[CMSMJ1]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

I’m intrigued as to why you feel describing EV’s as white goods is accurate??

[Zynerji]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

I would definitely want one of these 100hp, 120mpg hybrids for my commute.

The engine manufactures threw fits in order to harness the F1 spend as R&D for road cars. That's all we heard about for years as they crammed the hybrid tech into the sport.

So, where the f*** are they?

[CMSMJ1]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

I’m intrigued as to why you feel describing EV’s as white goods is accurate??

The EVs being sold are absolutely numb and are lacking in any engagement/desirability. Jellymould SUV style abominations that excite me as much as a Tassimo, or a tumbledryer.

When I see a cheeky little MX5 on banded tyres and roll cage fitted = winning
If I hear someone making a clean gear change and a clear exhaust tone, lovely!

When there is a connection between the mechanicals and that it 'matters' that you know how it works and feels...this is lacking in EV cars.

They are solely to perform a function and there is no charisma to them. You don't get to love the Alfa Busso thing, or the silly rear engines 911 thing...
They are all skateboard chassis battery behemoths with a huge shell on top.

Do you see them as anything other than a disposable item - like when your dishwasher needs to be replaced. You look for the naked ££ value and not for what excites you?

[vorticism]

So. Now that the 2014-2025 hybrid engines that the manufacturers REQUIRED in order to use the R&D for road cars are expiring, will we finally get road versions of these 50+% efficiency engines?!?!? Or is it all still just marketing BS?

2 cyl, v-twin (100-300hp/tq) derivative units with a moderately sized battery/mguh/mguk seems like it would be very sought after in consumer vehicles.

Where are they? And why is everyone OK with their demands and reasoning having been contradictorily ignored?

Mercedes did make one of their F1 engines road legal in the AMG One. So, it is possible, if cost prohibitive. Derivative tech, or at least equivalent tech, exist. Mercedes-Benz and Porsche have MGUHs in mass produced cars. Almost every big OEM has some form of MGUK. Diesel and lean burn petrol engines are ubiquitous. 500 hp/L not so much--and will such power density ever see scale production to reduce cost?

Working from the current hp/piston performance, I had made up with these concept outlines on a whim. Honda celebrating their recent successes in F1. Limited production (read: expensive collector cars, in lieu of scale economies) or just something for Tokyo Auto Salon. And a potential tie-in with Aston Martin. Random: since posting this, Pininfarina have announced they will be producing restomod NSXs. It was only a matter of time for that model, but Honda themselves could 'reproprod' NSXs like new classic Jags, Bentleys, & Astons have been reproduced by factories, or with their approval.

Honda Celebration Line
Small scale production of Honda F1 ICE, MGUK, and MGUH, applied to various new limited model concepts.

Honda Feather
Carbon framed & bodied hypermile 2-seater
266cc 1 cyl 140 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 300 hp

Honda S-2
FMR sports coupe
533cc 2cyl 280 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 440 hp

Honda NSX 799
Restoprod of the 1st gen NSX
799cc inline 3 cyl 420 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 580 hp

Honda Inspire/Accord Type R
F4 sedan
1067cc inline 4cyl 560 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 720 hp

Honda Wing
2-seat cycle car for track use
1067cc flat 4cyl 560 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 720 hp

Honda Civic Max
RM4 time attack hatchback, track or rally use
1333cc inline 5 cyl 700 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 860 hp

Honda Phoenix
RMR hypercar and flagship of the Celebration Line built to commemorate rising from the ashes in F1 to achieve multiple championship titles
1600cc flat 6 cyl 840 hp
MGUK 160 hp
System output 1000 hp

Honda Avon / Aston Martin Kantō
FMR luxury coupe/convertible collaboration with badging chosen by purchaser
2133cc V8
MGUK 160 hp
Twin MGUH
System output 1120 hp

Honda Victory
FM4 executive/state saloon/limousine
3200cc 12 cyl 1680 hp
Twin FF MGUK 320 hp
Twin MGUH
System output 2000 hp

[Billzilla]

The EVs being sold are absolutely numb and are lacking in any engagement/desirability. Jellymould SUV style abominations that excite me as much as a Tassimo, or a tumbledryer.

And that's fine as the vast majority of people don't care about what we find enjoyable and engaging.

[CMSMJ1]

The EVs being sold are absolutely numb and are lacking in any engagement/desirability. Jellymould SUV style abominations that excite me as much as a Tassimo, or a tumbledryer.

And that's fine as the vast majority of people don't care about what we find enjoyable and engaging.

Indeed, i get that. For many a car is just an appliance.
Hope they enjoy it

I don't want one. I'd rather walk

[fourmula1]

The EVs being sold are absolutely numb and are lacking in any engagement/desirability. Jellymould SUV style abominations that excite me as much as a Tassimo, or a tumbledryer.

And that's fine as the vast majority of people don't care about what we find enjoyable and engaging.

Indeed, i get that. For many a car is just an appliance.
Hope they enjoy it

I don't want one. I'd rather walk

Funny because the vast majority of ICU vehicles are totally boring numb awful appliances. If we were to crunch the numbers the hybrid/fully electric ratio of "interesting vs. numb" would probably win out. I hope we get more efficient integration of hybrids. I would take a beast of an electric assist in my truck......to tow my fossil fuel car to the track.
For daily drivers and utility vehicles they are interesting. We just need more power and efficiency!

[dren]

I bet the manufacturers got a lot out of the electric motor tech and controls for their hybrids.

[Greg Locock]

I acknowledge your enthusiasm.

[Rodak]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

I would definitely want one of these 100hp, 120mpg hybrids for my commute.

The engine manufactures threw fits in order to harness the F1 spend as R&D for road cars. That's all we heard about for years as they crammed the hybrid tech into the sport.

So, where the f*** are they?

F1 duty cycles have no application in real world driving, especially steady state freeway cruising.

[Zynerji]

Did you ever think you wanted something like these engines?
EV white goods on a non ownership model is where we are at.

Honda have a nice V3 bike concept and Kawasaki a hybrid in their range but it is totally dead behind the eyes and about as desirable as shingles.

I would definitely want one of these 100hp, 120mpg hybrids for my commute.

The engine manufactures threw fits in order to harness the F1 spend as R&D for road cars. That's all we heard about for years as they crammed the hybrid tech into the sport.

So, where the f*** are they?

F1 duty cycles have no application in real world driving, especially steady state freeway cruising.

I never said to put F1 engines into road cars. I asked where all of the tech derivatives are in these manufacturers' road cars. A few examples have been shared, but nothing near where it should be after 10 years of development.

[vorticism]

Took thirty years for SI turbocharged engines to become ubiquitous after F1's first turbo era. If the hamfisted EV mandates of Western governments (read: the least polluting places in the world trying to be the most extra leastest-y least polluters) fall to the wayside, as they appear to be doing, then we could see more extreme takes on the hybrid powertrain's potential in road cars--which is already quite good and very developed. In time I think we'll see that the silver-lining of the electrification push will be the further refinement of hybrid powertrains. Oddly enough, it was Tesla Motors, an exclusively-EV manufacturer and the first of its kind, who pushed an entire industry forward in this regard. So Mr. Musk did in part achieve his stated goal from twenty years ago: to spur the electrification of the car industry. I would not be surprised if at some point Tesla decides to manufacture internal combustion engined hybrids. Musk has already commissioned some of the most powerful combustion engines of all time in another one of his ventures.

[Greg Locock]

The starry eyed view that F1 tech has much relevance to road cars is regularly broadcast but has little foundation in fact. Sure F1 may have promoted rarely used tech, but you'll find that somebody somewhere will have tried it on the road before F1 'invented' it. The exception is graphite tubs, and apparently a shaft the length of the block between the two turbines in a turbo. https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/co ... fficiency/ for various disproven claims.