2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

What did you mean in Interlagos v COTA, by 'more camber' - the 'helpful one' or the 'hurting one' (positive or negative term confuses me whether it's for tyre or for track) ?

I usually mean both kinds when I don't specify, but English is not my first language so perhaps I am using the word wrong. There's also those troublesome "sudden drops" in some of the corners as well which can be particularly tricky for these cars which run very low to the ground.

Well I think most corners on this track have helpful' camber (a less extreme version of Zandvoort) and I recollect only one of the corners (from the onboards, can't recollect which exact corner) where the camber was 'opposite'/unhelpful ; on this track. Which means, the car's 'yearning for grip' is lesser than if there was no camber at all. And there are no 'both cambers in one corner due to wild elevation change' (like the corkscrew in LagunaSeca).
A 'normally lead pack car' can't lose 0.4s to competition, over a 35s duration - that's straightaway 1.1% performance loss - typically the performance gap between a P1 car and a P20 car. The word 'broken' was accurate by Max.

[Emag]

What did you mean in Interlagos v COTA, by 'more camber' - the 'helpful one' or the 'hurting one' (positive or negative term confuses me whether it's for tyre or for track) ?

I usually mean both kinds when I don't specify, but English is not my first language so perhaps I am using the word wrong. There's also those troublesome "sudden drops" in some of the corners as well which can be particularly tricky for these cars which run very low to the ground.

Well I think most corners on this track have helpful' camber (a less extreme version of Zandvoort) and I recollect only one of the corners (from the onboards, can't recollect which exact corner) where the camber was 'opposite'/unhelpful ; on this track. Which means, the car's 'yearning for grip' is lesser than if there was no camber at all. And there are no 'both cambers in one corner due to wild elevation change' (like the corkscrew in LagunaSeca).
A 'normally lead pack car' can't lose 0.4s to competition, over a 35s duration - that's straightaway 1.1% performance loss - typically the performance gap between a P1 car and a P20 car. The word 'broken' was accurate by Max.

I just meant that in general, when you have camber you can no longer make 1:1 comparisons with performances on tracks which have flat corners. And something is obviously off, because Max had the 13th fastest S2 in sprint quali. Slower than McLaren, Mercedes, Aston, Ferrari, RacingBull, Sauber and Williams.

But the thing is, they have a lot of data on the Mexico floor already. I don't think they would have risked using it with Max if that was what's causing this horrible performance. Worst case scenario, they would have just swapped it out after FP1 into Sprint Quali. Max is good enough to immediately adapt anyway.

Also the Mexico performance is being significantly downplayed in my opinion. Qualifying was tricky, but the race was really good. Not McLaren/Lando level of good, but 2nd fastest by a decent margin I would say. It just got tricky starting with mediums which were absolutely horrible in Mexico, and getting caught up on battles that lost him a lot of time and tire condition on that first stint. And it's not like McLaren's pace completely disappeared you know. They were not that great in Monza and Baku, but on the rest of the races, their clean air pace was highly competitive. So Max being 2nd to a McLaren when he doesn't have track position doesn't really seem out of the ordinary.

TLDR : Unless something comes out from the RedBull camp officially, I don't think the Mexico floor is to blame. Especially after seeing them run it from the get-go with Max here.

[Rodak]

Since Tsunoda is so far back it certainly wouldn't hurt to try something with setup and start him from the pit lane; maybe some useful data could be gained. He certainly won't be fighting Norris or Piastri for position.....

[Vettel165]

Since Tsunoda is so far back it certainly wouldn't hurt to try something with setup and start him from the pit lane; maybe some useful data could be gained. He certainly won't be fighting Norris or Piastri for position.....

Good point, try something different, just test it out... They have nothing to lose.

[Henk_v]

Statistically, it would be smart to bet on rain. Winning the WDC on merit, doing the same thing as MCL has a few % chance and relies on MCL screwing up.

Chance on rain is 30%. Some real chance to differrentiate and get a good points gap.
Maybe they are just focussed on keeping inters alive through a drying S2

[f1isgood]

COTA requires a different balance though. It's a much more bumpier track and actually has some real high-speed corners and straights which suit these generations of Red Bull cars.

You cannot obviously ignore that the car is quite tricky to get right around this track.

There could be deeper problems but it's all too early to conclude.

In case the floor is a failure then the technical team has work cut out. Nothing more to add.

Disagree.
If RB21 could match (or even surpass in race) the McL39 in COTA S3, in two qualifying sessions, and it can't do the same in Interlagos S2, something is definitely 'broken' (in Max's words) with the car. It is definitely not a 'tweakable' issue, but something more basic. Without S2, there is no point driving this track - if it were upto me, I would break parc ferme, bolt on the Austin floor and Austin setup (even if it means sacrificing top speed in S1/S3) and imitate the specific setup that was tuned to optimize S3 in COTA. Run the sprint, and do nothing but monitor S2 times. All it needs to do is match the S2 times posted by McLaren in tomorrow's sprint (wet or dry) - that's the reference. Doesn't matter finishing P20, because with this current setup, wet sprint is going to be P20 anyway. That will be a good 'evaluation' of whether the Mexico floor is a disaster (being greedy and going for more downforce) , and whether to treat the Austin setup as 'base' (which can be tweaked) for the Sunday race and the 3 other circuits. Forget the WDC, concentrate on coming 2nd in WCC.Z

PS : it's not looking 'recoverable' like Mexico (where the car still was good through the slow sections and struggled only with the medium/high-speed section in middle sector) because there are no Mexico-like 'slow corners with superhard braking and straighline traction' in Interlagos. Continuing with the current setup and 'hoping' to study the sprint data from tomorrow, is going to be useless, my gut says. Something has to give.

2022 Austin to 2022 Brazil was basically this. The performance drop was insane.

Maybe it's simply that. And will fix itself after sprint. Or maybe as you've been suspecting it's the floor. If it's the floor they clearly fluked into a good one at Monza which is not a good look.

If the floor is a failure, recall the discussions about setup breakthroughs? Car either has performance or not. This is clear evidence that such statements don't mean much at least in my point of view. Mekies being technical seems to have taken the car a step backwards as this floor is likely to have been made after confirmation at Monza.

I am personally not fully convinced it's the floor but if it is, l would wait till the weekend is over to convince myself. They might just be competitive come qualifying for all I know.

[FittingMechanics]

This sprint quali result looks bad for Max because other teams stepped up. With Mercedes and Aston usual pace he would line up P3.

[Vettel165]

Looks like a slightly damp sprint race and probably dry Qualy and race incoming. Looking at weather models (ECMWF)…

[Wouter]

Looks like a slightly damp sprint race and probably dry Qualy and race incoming. Looking at weather models (ECMWF)…

[Valeo]

Changes on Yuki's car.
Pit lane start.
A lot cooler now, 25 °C track

[FNTC]

Yuki starting from the pit to test the bigger rear wing, they said on Sky

[f1isgood]

Don't want to be that guy but using Yuki as a mule is kind of useless. His pace will be off, he cannot drive the car at all. He should have been replaced long time ago but long live the Honda money I suppose. Not sure what they are going to learn with him. The car is --- as Toto would say.

[Emag]

Don't want to be that guy but using Yuki as a mule is kind of useless. His pace will be off, he cannot drive the car at all. He should have been replaced long time ago but long live the Honda money I suppose. Not sure what they are going to learn with him. The car is --- as Toto would say.

With the pace Yuki has, he is useless for RedBull regardless. Add to that the starting position, it's unlikely he gets any points for them. This is the correct decision. They need to get as much data as possible to give Max the best car they can for the rest of the weekend.

[organic]

Surely they go back to the old floor

[f1isgood]

Don't want to be that guy but using Yuki as a mule is kind of useless. His pace will be off, he cannot drive the car at all. He should have been replaced long time ago but long live the Honda money I suppose. Not sure what they are going to learn with him. The car is --- as Toto would say.

With the pace Yuki has, he is useless for RedBull regardless. Add to that the starting position, it's unlikely he gets any points for them. This is the correct decision. They need to get as much data as possible to give Max the best car they can for the rest of the weekend.

I am saying any data he gives is useless regardless. If the rules allowed, Red Bull are better off running 1 car. I am not going to believe his data collection is going to be the turnaround that Red Bull needs.