2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

Atleast for the next two years - '26 and '27, this is going to be an 'engine formula' because it's not just the PU, the fuel too is specific to each team to their ICE. So aero/chassis will be fine if it's 'workable' , most effort will go into performance and reliability of the PU (ICE and battery) for the next two years.

[f1isgood]

Red Bull need a good chassis next year to be even in conversation with McLaren. McLaren will likely dominate if Mercedes engine isn't a dud. While I expect Mercedes to be there at the top, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if there are surprises with regard to engines.

Red Bull have likely had a failed upgrade just in Mexico. Quite interestingly, they had a failed upgrade at Jeddah in 2021 as well.

I think Merc are in a good position. Factory teams have always held a natural advantage and they probably will again once the engines are unfrozen.

For sure. I'm just curious how Red Bull as a factory team will do. If Horner hired the right people from HPP, there's no reason to be weak on the engine front. I'm just interested in seeing what they can cook up there as so far except for Horners complaints I don't recall hearing any other news about RBPT.

[f1isgood]

Atleast for the next two years - '26 and '27, this is going to be an 'engine formula' because it's not just the PU, the fuel too is specific to each team to their ICE. So aero/chassis will be fine if it's 'workable' , most effort will go into performance and reliability of the PU (ICE and battery) for the next two years.

I think the ICE front will be fine. The battery and their weight optimization will be a challenge I suppose.

[f1isgood]

Red Bull need a good chassis next year to be even in conversation with McLaren. McLaren will likely dominate if Mercedes engine isn't a dud. While I expect Mercedes to be there at the top, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if there are surprises with regard to engines.

Red Bull have likely had a failed upgrade just in Mexico. Quite interestingly, they had a failed upgrade at Jeddah in 2021 as well.

I wonder whether they only had a skeleton crew working on the upgrade so as not to impact 2026 much?

Monaghan said they were CFD updates (i.e no windtunnel). Remember that Red Bull was 4th in the WCC at the time of the resource re-allocation in June. So they simply have more time to use. If Red Bull's resource allocation is 15% more than Mclaren, they could afford to spend up to 15% of their time continuing to develop 2025 and still have the same amount of resources as Mclaren towards 2026.

The Mclaren drivers also crashed a lot this year, much more than Yuki and Max combined. So Mclaren can’t really afford anything (updates or engines).

Also McLaren have a brand new wind tunnel as well unlike Red Bull whose wind tunnel takes quite a bit of time to get warm and then to be used. So Red Bull's wind tunnel runs are not that effective generally.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

I am curious, but wasn't Alonso's Renault understeery when he won championships? So it is possible to be fast with understeer, which perhaps is not common. Although Albon and Hamilton also like oversteer, still they are amused by how Verstappen and Leclerc can handle oversteer.

[Emag]

I am curious, but wasn't Alonso's Renault understeery when he won championships? So it is possible to be fast with understeer, which perhaps is not common. Although Albon and Hamilton also like oversteer, still they are amused by how Verstappen and Leclerc can handle oversteer.

It won't work with these heavy cars and these pirelli tires. Even for Alonso, that extreme way of driving was only possible with the Michellin+Renault combo of those year. He didn't drive the same way after. For Pirelli, I think only Jenson Button preferred an understeery car and could actually go fast with one.

In general, Max is right. Understeer makes the car seem more stable, but it is slow and it also feels horrible to drive (for most drivers). And oversteery balance is not a unique preference to Charles and Max. It's inherently faster, because it's easier to induce rotation. The problem is that you need immaculate car control to not push the rear over the edge. That's where Max and Charles are very good. Rarely you see them having moments where they need to completely back out of the corners. Generally they just keep it going straight even when they get the occasional snaps.

[Badger]

I am curious, but wasn't Alonso's Renault understeery when he won championships? So it is possible to be fast with understeer, which perhaps is not common. Although Albon and Hamilton also like oversteer, still they are amused by how Verstappen and Leclerc can handle oversteer.

It's logical why understeer is slower. Any car that understeers isn't maximising its rotational speed, that is direct time loss. Therefore an understeery car can't be driven to it's theoretical performance limit regardless of driver input. In an oversteery car the driver controls the rotational speed, thus the limiting factor becomes the driver instead of the car, at least to a point, a human driver can only control so much oversteer.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Many drivers are saying that they prefer oversteer, but when was the last time someone said they preferred understeer? Or has any said it? I think understeer is linked to slow speed, so it's a secret desire if someone would like it. Perhaps smooth driving style is the understeer.

[Emag]

Many drivers are saying that they prefer oversteer, but when was the last time someone said they preferred understeer? Or has any said it? I think understeer is linked to slow speed, so it's a secret desire if someone would like it. Perhaps smooth driving style is the understeer.

Jenson Button is the last driver to say he prefers understeer as far as I remember.

[Tommy Cookers]

I am curious, but wasn't Alonso's Renault understeery when he won championships? So it is possible to be fast with understeer ....

.. Any car that understeers isn't maximising its rotational speed, that is direct time loss. Therefore an understeery car can't be driven to it's theoretical performance limit .....

'theoretical performance limit' ?

the Renault had c 35/65 weight distribution ....
faster exiting the corner (than would be the currently mandated 44/56) because more and earlier power can be used
(the reason F1 went from being front-engined to being rear-engined)

[Badger]

I am curious, but wasn't Alonso's Renault understeery when he won championships? So it is possible to be fast with understeer ....

.. Any car that understeers isn't maximising its rotational speed, that is direct time loss. Therefore an understeery car can't be driven to it's theoretical performance limit .....

'theoretical performance limit' ?

the Renault had c 35/65 weight distribution ....
faster exiting the corner (than would be the currently mandated 44/56) because more and earlier power can be used
(the reason F1 went from being front-engined to being rear-engined)

Yes. A car with the same weight, power and overall downforce will be theoretically faster with an oversteery balance rather than understeer.

You will not be faster exiting the corner with understeer. The earlier you rotate the earlier you can apply power the faster you exit the corner. If you apply power when you have understeer you’ll end up on the outside of the track.

[Vettel165]

Max will dominate Las Vegas, its a similar track to Baku, low-drag setup is needed.

[venkyhere]

Max will dominate Las Vegas, its a similar track to Baku, low-drag setup is needed.

It's a 'boring' track with only a single corner complex that can be called 'interesting' - T1-2-3 where 3 is a high speed one. All other corners are either :
a) too full throttle and too small steering angle, that it's a straight
b) hard braking and 90 degree turn, just like Baku.

None of which suggests that Redbull will dominate (even if they have an actual low drag wing, unlike the scissor-cut 2024 one) , as all cars are different from last year. The 'Mercedes domination' narrative from last year is moot as well. If my memory serves me right, Russel gained all his laptime through T1-2-3 and through the rest of the lap, it was all even-stevens across the top cars. Ferrari went ultra-low-drag and whatever slight advantage they gained in the straights, they only lost as much in the corners because their car still held good traction from slow corners. This year, with their ride height issues, I expect them to fall away from the front, and Williams to replace them in the front pack. For all it's worth, Mclaren could well be "front-row" contrary to the popular narrative, especially since tyres are 'black magic' in this ground effect era.

[Farnborough]

Agree there's much shift in chassis attributes from last year, for most teams. Prediction difficult to any notional accuracy.

MV seemed to take alot from SP at that Baku race in which he noted the difference between them for short corners. Along with adjustment of technique to bring that element into his approach.

McL gives question mark for me about that critical feel bringing confidence in braking phase for these very short corner type. Possibly as a result of the front geometry they use to such good effect elsewhere. That question mark for me remains until we've passed the full Q.

It looks like its going to be "sticky" at front pace again with many able to be very close proximity.

It would surprise me if Max came out of here with substantially more % chance of championship than going into this race. That's barring any significant dropout from LN and McL.

[Emag]

This could indirectly help out RedBull in Qatar as well :

F1 limits drivers to just 25 laps per set of tyres for Qatar Grand Prix