Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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madridista
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 18:03
I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:

Carlos Miquel: “I’m getting positive messages about the 2026 Aston Martin.
I’m also getting positive messages about the Honda engine, not like in the McLaren era.”
-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.
Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.

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peewon
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45
diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 18:03
I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:


-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.
Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
Ive seen similar stuff in a couple of places as well. They are unlikely to be bad for sure but where they stand in comparison to others is unknown.

I'll give you an example based on last regulation changes. Mercedes with their zero pod design is also a good example. Not much leaked out about it but later we found out that their simulation numbers for downforce were off the charts. However, due to them being unable to simulate the porpoising effect in the wind tunnel, the design didnt work. The FIA had expected a certain performance level measured in terms of downforce and given those figures as a rough guide to partners like Pirelli. From what Ive read, most teams exceeded those figures.

Similarly there are expected performance figures floating around for next year as well which teams like Cadillac are using a guide. Sometimes what teams feel internally is based on that. Some teams are very good at hiding things and information leaks out of some teams more easily.

So a lot of these rumors are based on how much information a team leaks + how competently are people who are source of this information judging their performance. Therefore, its hard to make conclusions based on these things because there is still room for variation.

madridista
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Nowhere did i state anything that contradicts what you or diffuser wrote, im well aware that we can only see how they actually compare once they are on track.
Thats why i didnt say anything in regards to if they are gonna do well or bad or fixate on a position , but merely state that its an encouraging sign for next year that positive things are being said currently. Im afraid you read too much into it.
Besides, this is a speculation thread. Might as well put all of those threads to rest if no one "knows" how anyone is actually going to compare . ](*,)

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45
diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 18:03
I have not listened to the podcast myself, but i have seen multiple X accounts post the same quote:


-translated from spanish
https://www.cope.es/podcasts/cope-gp/ep ... 53042.html

Would be interesting to hear thoughts on how credible this guy is if anyone is familiar with him.
Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.

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peewon
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 03:11

Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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madridista wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 03:47
Nowhere did i state anything that contradicts what you or diffuser wrote, im well aware that we can only see how they actually compare once they are on track.
Thats why i didnt say anything in regards to if they are gonna do well or bad or fixate on a position , but merely state that its an encouraging sign for next year that positive things are being said currently. Im afraid you read too much into it.
Besides, this is a speculation thread. Might as well put all of those threads to rest if no one "knows" how anyone is actually going to compare . ](*,)
I actually appreciate your post. Its a good find. A lot of regional reporters are often more willing to put information out there than mainstream ones. Im always interested in information like that. We're just engaging in a discussion to give it more context.

basti313
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45
diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20


Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.
Well, I think your last post refers a bit too much to what we currently have with the ground effect floors. This factor of not understanding the car will most likely not be that severe next year. We will go back to a series, where the dominating car will dominate on nearly all circuits. Or better to say...the pecking order will not mix like we have it now.
What I agree on is, that no one knows where they stand. In my point of view ICE efficiency will be king. So I would even discard most aero rumors, as the aero is simplified and may be a much smaller part than the necessary lift and cost if it is as bad as in Indy.
Don`t russel the hamster!

madridista
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45
diffuser wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:20


Positive messages about anything, when there is nothing to reference against is meaningless. I'm not saying they're gonna be good, bad or indifferent. You just don't know how fast it us until you see the competition on the track.
Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
… How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.
Good, can you go ahead and quote the part where calculations were made

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 13:56
diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04
madridista wrote:
16 Nov 2025, 22:45


Stuff gets around in the paddock, and if this guy is actually close to someone and what he says is true, i wouldnt consider it meaningless. "Positive messages" is open since he isnt being more specific, but a good sign nonetheless and reminds me of pre season 2023.

Concerning his comment on Honda, i suggest the various reports on Mercedes PU would be meaningless too then, since we havent seem them all side by side on dynos with the exact HP values measured.
In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.
Well, I think your last post refers a bit too much to what we currently have with the ground effect floors. This factor of not understanding the car will most likely not be that severe next year. We will go back to a series, where the dominating car will dominate on nearly all circuits. Or better to say...the pecking order will not mix like we have it now.
What I agree on is, that no one knows where they stand. In my point of view ICE efficiency will be king. So I would even discard most aero rumors, as the aero is simplified and may be a much smaller part than the necessary lift and cost if it is as bad as in Indy.
Trust me, more than one team will hit something that will take them a long time to figure out and leave them behind everyone else.

basti313
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 18:09
basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 13:56
diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 11:04


In a sport where .5 of a second per lap edge at 1 track could turn into a .5 second deficit at another. Where those adantages or deficits could be coming from a million places. What about a team that is one of the best for 6 months, then loses it and still cannot figure it out 2 years later. How do you calculate that from a rumor?

I am optimistic but realistic.
Well, I think your last post refers a bit too much to what we currently have with the ground effect floors. This factor of not understanding the car will most likely not be that severe next year. We will go back to a series, where the dominating car will dominate on nearly all circuits. Or better to say...the pecking order will not mix like we have it now.
What I agree on is, that no one knows where they stand. In my point of view ICE efficiency will be king. So I would even discard most aero rumors, as the aero is simplified and may be a much smaller part than the necessary lift and cost if it is as bad as in Indy.
Trust me, more than one team will hit something that will take them a long time to figure out and leave them behind everyone else.
What do you mean, aero or engine side? I thought aero is mostly so restricted, that there will not be major hurdles.
I would rather expect that some team might have a magic bullet in something like brake cooling. But not that teams fall back because of this.
And one or two engine manufacturers in the situation you describe...for example that the engine just does not survive on the track.
Generally I would expect Chevy far behind, maybe even struggling with 107%. That one of the "old" teams gets it wrong is also possible, but not likely for Aston.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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diffuser
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 18:41
diffuser wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 18:09
basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 13:56

Well, I think your last post refers a bit too much to what we currently have with the ground effect floors. This factor of not understanding the car will most likely not be that severe next year. We will go back to a series, where the dominating car will dominate on nearly all circuits. Or better to say...the pecking order will not mix like we have it now.
What I agree on is, that no one knows where they stand. In my point of view ICE efficiency will be king. So I would even discard most aero rumors, as the aero is simplified and may be a much smaller part than the necessary lift and cost if it is as bad as in Indy.
Trust me, more than one team will hit something that will take them a long time to figure out and leave them behind everyone else.
What do you mean, aero or engine side? I thought aero is mostly so restricted, that there will not be major hurdles.
I would rather expect that some team might have a magic bullet in something like brake cooling. But not that teams fall back because of this.
And one or two engine manufacturers in the situation you describe...for example that the engine just does not survive on the track.
Generally I would expect Chevy far behind, maybe even struggling with 107%. That one of the "old" teams gets it wrong is also possible, but not likely for Aston.
Like I said, there are a million things that any other team can do a better job on than "your" team(PU and chassis). Lots of room for failure. That's why when someone says "looks Promising", I just :roll:. For that comment to actually mean something scientific, someone would have to have actual track data from all the cars and compare. HP numbers will be just part of the story, efficiency (ICE and MGU-K) will be another. I think Honda will be there. I'm just not a fan of those empty comments.

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peewon
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 18:41

What do you mean, aero or engine side? I thought aero is mostly so restricted, that there will not be major hurdles.
I would rather expect that some team might have a magic bullet in something like brake cooling. But not that teams fall back because of this.
And one or two engine manufacturers in the situation you describe...for example that the engine just does not survive on the track.
Generally I would expect Chevy far behind, maybe even struggling with 107%. That one of the "old" teams gets it wrong is also possible, but not likely for Aston.
Brembo, the brake manufacturer had given statement that there was huge divergence in the brake design requests by various teams in terms of thickness and diameter. Which suggests some wide divergence in braking solutions and Regen. So I feel energy recovery is clearly one area which could provide a performance moat.

The aero is also not so simple. A lot of restrictions to reduce dirty air effect so the usual shenanigans will take place on how to get back that performance under new rules. The front wing is smaller and movable. Pirelli has said that aero loads submitted in simulations by teams vary by 20-30% which translates to 3-4 second lap time difference. That is massive.

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diffuser
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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peewon wrote:
18 Nov 2025, 01:34
basti313 wrote:
17 Nov 2025, 18:41

What do you mean, aero or engine side? I thought aero is mostly so restricted, that there will not be major hurdles.
I would rather expect that some team might have a magic bullet in something like brake cooling. But not that teams fall back because of this.
And one or two engine manufacturers in the situation you describe...for example that the engine just does not survive on the track.
Generally I would expect Chevy far behind, maybe even struggling with 107%. That one of the "old" teams gets it wrong is also possible, but not likely for Aston.
Brembo, the brake manufacturer had given statement that there was huge divergence in the brake design requests by various teams in terms of thickness and diameter. Which suggests some wide divergence in braking solutions and Regen. So I feel energy recovery is clearly one area which could provide a performance moat.

The aero is also not so simple. A lot of restrictions to reduce dirty air effect so the usual shenanigans will take place on how to get back that performance under new rules. The front wing is smaller and movable. Pirelli has said that aero loads submitted in simulations by teams vary by 20-30% which translates to 3-4 second lap time difference. That is massive.
Yeah, much time is also allotted to the aero of the air flow under the covers. Air that is used for the PU cooling. There is drag there that can be improved with efficiencies. Although that doesn't fall under the PU responsibilities. On a works team, the chassis team will discuss with PU team what can be done to maximize packaging.

madridista
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Am announces documentary on Neweys arrival and work ahead of 2026

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ocumentary

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Ashwinv16
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Newey becoming Team Principal means only on of two things
1. They really need some upturn in form and a different insight and Newey wanted to lead a team after being on the side just working on the car so a trade off was made after Andy Cowell couldn't deliver
2. They themselves believe that they might be soo far ahead of the competition in 2026 that the current car designed by Newey would be good and they decided it's best if he just oversee the upgrades helping strengthen the technical team for when Newey retires (he is 66 so max 4-10 years only Rory Bryne and Bob Bell are older than him and Rory has taken a back seat already). As well as the whole operation from his experience with Red Bull rather than fork a large amount and Controversy with Horner at this time
Halo not as bad as we thought

Andi76
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Re: Aston Martin Honda 2026 speculation etc

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Ashwinv16 wrote:
27 Nov 2025, 09:11
Newey becoming Team Principal means only on of two things
1. They really need some upturn in form and a different insight and Newey wanted to lead a team after being on the side just working on the car so a trade off was made after Andy Cowell couldn't deliver
2. They themselves believe that they might be soo far ahead of the competition in 2026 that the current car designed by Newey would be good and they decided it's best if he just oversee the upgrades helping strengthen the technical team for when Newey retires (he is 66 so max 4-10 years only Rory Bryne and Bob Bell are older than him and Rory has taken a back seat already). As well as the whole operation from his experience with Red Bull rather than fork a large amount and Controversy with Horner at this time
Rory has taken a back seat since the end of 2004. From 2007 to 2012, he hardly worked in F1 at all, from 2013 to 2022 he only worked a few hours as a consultant (as he has generally done since 2007), and since 2022 he has only been to Maranello once and only participates in meetings via Teams for a few hours.

Newey's "promotion" to team principal must be seen in the context of Stroll's statement, which essentially says that this will allow the team to make the best use of Newey's creativity and technical skills. However, this is not the job of a team principal. A team principal is not actually creative in terms of technology or technical skills or the car itself. His job, as the name suggests, is to manage the team and its environment, the people, money, public image, media, and politics. Stroll did not mention any of this, but clearly referred to creativity and technology.

This makes it clear that by making Newey team principal, they simply wanted/had to give him full and sole control, without him having to come to terms with anyone or consult with anyone, without anyone being able to question or even block his decisions. Basically, Newey is nothing more than Ross Brawn used to be at Ferrari, who had been contractually guaranteed full and sole technical control there, but with the added advantage that Newey now, unlike Brawn back then, also has full control over the budget and can decide on it without having to convince anyone that money needs to be invested in a new simulator.

The problem with this kind of structure in an F1 team, though, is the actual job of a team boss. Managing the team environment, the people in the team, F1 politics (which is inextricably linked to the success of a team, because this also involves influencing rules and developments in the interests of the team and its technical skills and knowledge – the importance of this is demonstrated by the 2005 season when Ross, who unlike Newey at the time already took on the role of team boss when it came to technology, made the mistake of accepting the rule change regarding tires and diffusers) – if these things are neglected, a team cannot be successful, at least not in the long term. So you need someone to take on these tasks, because Newey, as Stroll's statement makes clear, is basically not a team principal, but a "super" technical director. A technical director with full control over the team, infrastructure, resources, and money.

Perhaps Cowell, as Chief Strategy Officer, should take on precisely those tasks that Newey, in his "role" as team principal, does not want to/cannot do (because if he did, he would inevitably have no time left to even begin to take care of the car, its design and technical details, let alone design anything for it). Whether such a structure will work remains to be seen.

Some will point to Ross Brawn, who basically took on the same "development" role at Honda/Brawn/Mercedes. But here we must not forget that Ross and Newey's working methods were completely different. While Ross had always been a technical manager and had taken on many of the tasks of a team principal since joining Ferrari (namely everything related to technology), Newey was not, but always a designer, whether active or in an advisory role (increasingly so in recent years). Where Brawn had experience in putting the right people in the right places, creating the right environment, and setting the direction with frightening technical foresight, Newey has little experience in this field. Getting design and technical teams to work together, advising them, and inspiring them is something completely different. Two different areas that require two different ways of working.

It remains to be seen how Newey will master this, and for it to be successful, in my opinion at least, he needs someone to take over the actual tasks of a team principal in his place. Otherwise, the whole thing will come to nothing, because Newey will no longer have time to be creative and contribute his technical skills.

In any case, this now opens up the possibility of Verstappen joining Aston Martin in 2027. Or Leclerc. Or both. One of them will definitely join this team in 2027, because the engineers there are impressive.

Having said this you have to mention Marco Fainello, even though this has nothing to do with Newey's role as team principal, but purely with Aston Martin. Fainello will play an important role for Aston Martin, as he did at Ferrari after Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne recognized his abilities in 1997 and made him head of a new and first department of its kind in F1—Vehicle Dynamics & Simulations. It is no coincidence that Marco was hired, in many ways. Newey has just identified this area as a weak point at AM. The fact that they have now brought in the very engineer who was responsible for this area at Ferrari during the Brawn/Byrne era and who (in a shared vision of Brawn and Byrne regarding the application of simulation and vehicle dynamics in racing cars) made Ferrari the leading team in this area for many years. In addition, Fainello's knowledge, as one of the senior engineers, of the working methods, organization, and procedures of such a successful team as Ferrari under Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne will certainly continue to be beneficial to Aston Martin and can be put to good use.

In fact, Aston Martin is frighteningly well positioned in terms of engineers and technicians, with greats such as Newey, Cowell, Fainello, Bell, and Cardille.

It is now up to Newey, as "team principal," to capitalize on this. Like Ross Brawn, he must create an environment, procedures, working methods, and culture in which each of these great engineers and "the little guys" contribute to making the car faster and better and developing it faster than their competition. Because, basically, that is the cornerstone of success in F1 and what many fail at. If he doesn't manage to do that and if it doesn't work with these people, then it would be clear that he has failed completely. Because, in fact, this is the best you can get in these positions. So if AM isn't in contention for the title by 2027 at the latest, or 2028 at the very latest, I would be surprised, and Newey would have clearly failed and is not suited to the role he now has. But even then, with this potential in engineers, there would still be the option of "demoting" him (if he agrees), returning him to his original role, and assigning the larger tasks of a manager and team principal to someone else who can make this team of absolutely great people work.

But be that as it may, if Aston Martin gives Newey someone to take on the actual tasks of a team principal and to whom he can delegate them, I don't think anyone will be able to stop Aston Martin. Because in terms of senior engineers alone, Aston Martin is by far the best in F1 with Newey, Cardille, Fainello, Cowell, and Bell. And apart from Cowell, these are all people who, although highly competitive and ambitious, are also absolutely team players and able to subordinate themselves to a common goal. Above all, with Fainello, Bell, and Newey, they have people who understand more than just one part of the car, but the car as a whole.

But long story short: if Newey doesn't completely fail and Stroll doesn't fail to give Newey someone to whom he can delegate the actual tasks of a team principal according to his ideas, Aston Martin is guaranteed to be THE favorite for the world championship by 2028 at the latest, if not sooner. It has to be said that Stroll has not done things by halves and is going all out. Now all that is needed is someone to harness this incredible potential and make it work together, which is now solely Newey's responsibility.

I would like to conclude by expressing my respect for Stroll, because he is doing what Ferrari is not doing. Ferrari's success was largely based on Ross Brawn having sole technical responsibility and exercising it, which prevented Ferrari and FIAT executives from interfering with the team and technology and causing disruption. This only worked at Ferrari because of the creation of a power circle consisting of Todt, Brawn, Schumacher, and Byrne, who had so much influence and power that no one could interfere with the team and technology. These four led the F1 team loyally and in agreement with each other and made all the decisions, with Byrne ensuring that there was no politics whatsoever in the engineering groups at the factory.

What was both a natural development and a struggle at Ferrari back then, unlike Montezemolo at the time, Stroll is now voluntarily implementing the sole and exclusive responsibility of an F1 team by F1 specialists. My respect for that! But it must also be said what many people don't know—Lawrence Stroll was part of the expanding F1 team during the Schumacher era, which also included the big sponsors and suppliers. At that time, he saw how an F1 team should look and function based on the leadership of people like Todt, Brawn, Byrne, and Schumacher, and is now voluntarily handing over full and sole control of the team to specialists. This is something Ferrari has been unable to do since 2007, and it is the reason why, since losing the momentum and technical advantage of the Brawn/Byrne/Schumacher era, they have not won any titles.

So regardless of whether Newey makes this a success or not, Stroll deserves respect for recognizing this and actually implementing it with such determination! Now we can only hope for him that Newey will do what Brawn did with less at Ferrari.