It's weird that the dumbed down supposedly results in higher down-force.WardenOfTheNorth wrote: ↑08 Nov 2025, 07:13I thought the whole idea of ground effect was that the floor generated most of the overall downforce??
It's weird that the dumbed down supposedly results in higher down-force.WardenOfTheNorth wrote: ↑08 Nov 2025, 07:13I thought the whole idea of ground effect was that the floor generated most of the overall downforce??

Second guy on the internet expecting to see rake on these cars after yours truly, though I shall withhold judgement until I see the quality of his Colorful Freehand Drawings.
It has always been the case (at least say in the last 15 odd years) that floor always generated the most downforce. The idea of the current regulations that are ending was to have less reliance on wings and more on the floor as floor also produces more clean downforce that doesn't cause issues with following.WardenOfTheNorth wrote: ↑08 Nov 2025, 07:13I thought the whole idea of ground effect was that the floor generated most of the overall downforce??
I wouldn't say no one expected them in 2022 - 3 teams (Red Bull, Alpine and Alpha Tauri) started the season with long gently downward ramped sidepods. I would guess other teams experimented with this style too but settled on other designs that gave them better performance initially. I predicted this sidepod style too, and even ran a model in my (small, crude, home built) wind tunnel in 2021 - although the flow structures I observed in the tunnel weren't quite right. I also predicted the "waterslide" evolution of the sidepod, but unsurprisingly I always got separation inside the waterslide when I tried these in my tunnel. These predictions were probably luck as much as anything!vorticism wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025, 16:16Had half a thought about the current long, downsloping sidepods being used in this formula. No one expected them heading into '22 (least of all Brixworth) and the RB18's wide, long sidepods surprised everyone, as it was an antithesis of the preceding era. Any chance of it? Any chance it could it have been an unexplored option '09-'21? There would be some interaction with the 'Floor Corner' area, and it would be a continuation of the general 'sidepod as sidewall' concept.
Good memory. Though looking at 2013 photos, only the RB9 and E21 used the sort of sidepods we're describing, and even those two used a duct on the side to ingest air, reducing its effect as a sidewall. In that sense, the footprint of those sidepods was still small and tapering, unlike the RB18-type. As for 2022, let's just say no one was copying TR or Alpine in '23 or '24; and if it was a concept that was widely tested, then the case would still be that most teams "didn't expect it..." to work so well, at least. I agree about the unknowns of the '26 bargeboard ("Board"); could be the new Y250 if the wheel wake doesn't dampen it too much.MIKEY_! wrote: ↑19 Nov 2025, 07:46I wouldn't say no one expected them in 2022 - 3 teams (Red Bull, Alpine and Alpha Tauri) started the season with long gently downward ramped sidepods. I would guess other teams experimented with this style too but settled on other designs that gave them better performance initially. I predicted this sidepod style too, and even ran a model in my (small, crude, home built) wind tunnel in 2021 - although the flow structures I observed in the tunnel weren't quite right. I also predicted the "waterslide" evolution of the sidepod, but unsurprisingly I always got separation inside the waterslide when I tried these in my tunnel. These predictions were probably luck as much as anything!vorticism wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025, 16:16Had half a thought about the current long, downsloping sidepods being used in this formula. No one expected them heading into '22 (least of all Brixworth) and the RB18's wide, long sidepods surprised everyone, as it was an antithesis of the preceding era. Any chance of it? Any chance it could it have been an unexplored option '09-'21? There would be some interaction with the 'Floor Corner' area, and it would be a continuation of the general 'sidepod as sidewall' concept.
We saw hints of this sidepod design approach with the coanda sidepods of 2012-13, but what they were trying to achieve and how they were managing the airflow was quite different to today. Teams would have had a good understanding of how these sidepods performed with minimal exhaust flow over them, so I doubt they missed an opportunity to apply this design after coanda effect sidepod exhaust blowing was banned. Big ramped sidepods just weren't the fastest way to go racing in the era of powerful outwashing vortexes, unless it was a compromise to make the exhaust work.
Could we see this design next year? Maybe. I suspect it depends how teams opt to manage the vortex coming off the bargeboard. My prediction at this stage is teams using a shallow front undercut and your horizontal slat bargeboards to drive the front wheel wake away from the floor's front edge (probably not completely), outwards, upwards, and using a bathtub-style (Ferrari 2022) sidepod upper surface to draw that wake back to the top surface of a sidepod. My thinking is this would carry the front wheel wake through the gap between the beam wing and rear wing, hopefully minimising its aero impact. In that case, a sidepod that ramps all the way to the floor would send this wake over the diffuser and beam wing, so not ideal. I make this prediction with all the same ignorance as my 2022 prediction, so it'll be fun to see if I get lucky again!
Typical F1/FIA fashion. Having a good idea and completely failing at implementing it. I didn't like the fugly floor edges that were allowed. I was right to be skeptical. It just allows them to create dirty air.f1isgood wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025, 11:50It has always been the case (at least say in the last 15 odd years) that floor always generated the most downforce. The idea of the current regulations that are ending was to have less reliance on wings and more on the floor as floor also produces more clean downforce that doesn't cause issues with following.WardenOfTheNorth wrote: ↑08 Nov 2025, 07:13I thought the whole idea of ground effect was that the floor generated most of the overall downforce??
However teams starting in 2023 started to add fancy floor edges, and in 2024 exploited wings quite heavily so most supposed benefits of the regulations were lost. It was also in part because FIA panicked and raised diffuser throats due to a safety concern in the infamous rule change from 2022 to 2023.
According to this, the floor will generate more downforce as a percentage than the wings than the 2022 car did.
It is maybe truth but for me it sounds wrong. One must take into account that the variable aerodynamic allows a much "bigger" wing on almost every track.TeamKoolGreen wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025, 01:55According to this, the floor will generate more downforce as a percentage than the wings than the 2022 car did.
2026 was originally just a power unit regs change. But they hacked up the chassis and aero just to accommodate the Frankenstein power units
I wouldn’t pay much attention to this video. The number are very dubious to say the least. The floor on the current regs makes nearer to 50% of the overall downforce, how he had it at somewhere in the 30s is bafflingTeamKoolGreen wrote: ↑25 Nov 2025, 01:55According to this, the floor will generate more downforce as a percentage than the wings than the 2022 car did.
2026 was originally just a power unit regs change. But they hacked up the chassis and aero just to accommodate the Frankenstein power units