2025 McLaren F1 Team

[Farnborough]

For the love of God, let a solid black and white case remain just that. Simple, easy to understand and almost everyone keeps to the rules. No need to create a grey-zone and add X-number of chapters to the FIA technical and sporting regulations trying to define "performance benefits" of Y-amount of thickness deficit.

I agree with you on this, they're just making themselves look more silly the more they ask for clemency/mitigation/ rules consideration.

These are the rules, that's the result, the penalty is known before. Get over it McL.

In a sport where they are proud of finite accuracy, promoting themselves as high achieving in the field of performance engineering..... and they didn’t meet or stay above a hard and very well known limit. Come on, who are they aiming it at now ? It should have been intelligent conversation internally and leading up to each race, this one certainly with the points gap they had.

As someone else pointed out, ZB would have had a field day if it were RB. Many things come around to haunt the cocky position he's made public. They just need to wear this one and move on, its not dignified at all to offer those words in report.

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

Its not that though, just as it wasn't 0.2mm on Mercedes wing in Brazil, that's simply the hard expression, in engineering terms, that they ALL know they've got to keep within. The same for everyone.

The gain in both those cases, is the pace difference in accumulation for each lap, by running it too far into margin to pass scrutineering.
Its niave/ignorant or both, to represent it in any other way.

Its not dignified (they say they want to conduct themselves "properly" ) for McL and anyone speaking for them, to foster this hard done by story by using complaint about the rules after the fact.

They've had a very good year, likely will get both championship to crown that. Whingeing excuses don't make them look good.

[De Wet]

The Usual Mountain of a Molehill...

[venkyhere]

Were you surprised by the Stewards' decision?
We verified together with the technical delegate that the measurement of the skid thickness was correct. Even if the excessive wear is relatively minor and in only one location, (as it was 0.12 mm for Lando and 0.26mm for Oscar), the regulation is very clear that the rear skids need to be at least 9mm at the end of the race in every location. Unlike sporting or financial rules, there is no proportionality in the application of penalties for technical regulation infringements. The FIA itself has admitted that this lack of proportionality should be addressed in the future to ensure that minor and accidental technical infringements, with minimal or no performance benefits, do not lead to disproportionate consequences.

For the love of God, let a solid black and white case remain just that. Simple, easy to understand and almost everyone keeps to the rules. No need to create a grey-zone and add X-number of chapters to the FIA technical and sporting regulations trying to define "performance benefits" of Y-amount of thickness deficit.

I agree with you on this, they're just making themselves look more silly the more they ask for clemency/mitigation/ rules consideration.

These are the rules, that's the result, the penalty is known before. Get over it McL.

In a sport where they are proud of finite accuracy, promoting themselves as high achieving in the field of performance engineering..... and they didn’t meet or stay above a hard and very well known limit. Come on, who are they aiming it at now ? It should have been intelligent conversation internally and leading up to each race, this one certainly with the points gap they had.

As someone else pointed out, ZB would have had a field day if it were RB. Many things come around to haunt the cocky position he's made public. They just need to wear this one and move on, its not dignified at all to offer those words in report.

All those convoluted statements, reams and reams of media articles... ultimately boils down to :

"Mclaren finally started to pay attention to their drivers' pride only after they had polished off the WCC ; and it so happened that a resurgent Verstappen with an upgraded car started rattling their cage, a cage which was hitherto assumed impenetrable. So they went full desperado and decided to overcompensate for a track which would have given them an easy P3/P4, and would still have been fine for both their drivers' WDC chances. Instead they gambled where it was not required. It just shows that they don't trust their drivers enough to handle the pressure, which they ought to. Now they have ended up cancelling the efforts of their drivers, and piled on even more pressure on them, both of whom are having their first crack at WDC. The team is 100% at fault"

I guess we wont get to read the above anywhere else but in f1technical, where we call a spade a spade.

[Waz]

For the love of God, let a solid black and white case remain just that. Simple, easy to understand and almost everyone keeps to the rules. No need to create a grey-zone and add X-number of chapters to the FIA technical and sporting regulations trying to define "performance benefits" of Y-amount of thickness deficit.

I agree with you on this, they're just making themselves look more silly the more they ask for clemency/mitigation/ rules consideration.

These are the rules, that's the result, the penalty is known before. Get over it McL.

In a sport where they are proud of finite accuracy, promoting themselves as high achieving in the field of performance engineering..... and they didn’t meet or stay above a hard and very well known limit. Come on, who are they aiming it at now ? It should have been intelligent conversation internally and leading up to each race, this one certainly with the points gap they had.

As someone else pointed out, ZB would have had a field day if it were RB. Many things come around to haunt the cocky position he's made public. They just need to wear this one and move on, its not dignified at all to offer those words in report.

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

Conveniently forgetting that there is a penalty for a new unit, which was applied to Red Bull and served. They didn't get it freely.

[Ben1980]

I agree with you on this, they're just making themselves look more silly the more they ask for clemency/mitigation/ rules consideration.

These are the rules, that's the result, the penalty is known before. Get over it McL.

In a sport where they are proud of finite accuracy, promoting themselves as high achieving in the field of performance engineering..... and they didn’t meet or stay above a hard and very well known limit. Come on, who are they aiming it at now ? It should have been intelligent conversation internally and leading up to each race, this one certainly with the points gap they had.

As someone else pointed out, ZB would have had a field day if it were RB. Many things come around to haunt the cocky position he's made public. They just need to wear this one and move on, its not dignified at all to offer those words in report.

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

Conveniently forgetting that there is a penalty for a new unit, which was applied to Red Bull and served. They didn't get it freely.

They had a penalty yes, but thats not my point. Tge point is whole organisation have said its a grey area that needs tidying up. So you can be so sure on basically a hours width to not knowing about something else quite important.

[venkyhere]

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

For how long are Mclaren fans* going to burst their spleens over the new engine that Redbull took in Interlagos. They got the grid position penalty commensurate by the rules, didn't they ?

*mod edit

[Ben1980]

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

For how long are Mclaren f-a-n-b-o-y-s going to burst their spleens over the new engine that Redbull took in Interlagos. They got the grid position penalty commensurate by the rules, didn't they ?

I don't give 2 sh%ts about the engine change, thats not my point, which i clearly said.

My point was its crazy that they have admitted to a grey area on that situation, yet are so rigid over 0.12mm ( which is also fair) its just a sign of muddled thinking.

And fboy Come on now.

[f1isgood]

Its funny though that 0.12mm or whatever is banged to rights, but Red Bull taking a nice new engine for sh%ts and giggles, no one has a bloody clue. ( not against RB just using an recent case)

For how long are Mclaren f-a-n-b-o-y-s going to burst their spleens over the new engine that Redbull took in Interlagos. They got the grid position penalty commensurate by the rules, didn't they ?

I don't give 2 sh%ts about the engine change, thats not my point, which i clearly said.

My point was its crazy that they have admitted to a grey area on that situation, yet are so rigid over 0.12mm ( which is also fair) its just a sign of muddled thinking.

And fboy Come on now.

This is McLaren's version. The FIA hasn't said anything so I will wait

[FittingMechanics]

The DSQ in Las Vegas is fair and deserved. McLaren made a setup mistake.

Red Bull shouldn't have been able to add an engine outside a penalty (for performance reasons) but if Mekies just said "we saw a problem" it would have been fine as per Tombazis, so I guess that's it.

Let's get a great result in Qatar.

[AR3-GP]

Red Bull shouldn't have been able to add an engine outside a penalty (for performance reasons) but if Mekies just said "we saw a problem" it would have been fine as per Tombazis, so I guess that's it.

They couldn't see the problem because the problem was outside the scope of their sensors. I think we can put this to bed now.

In a separate interview with De Telegraaf, Verstappen’s engine engineer, David Mart, detailed what it is like to work closely with the four-time world champion, highlighting how it can sometimes be quite the challenge.

He said, “Max is a very special talent. He is 100% committed to motor racing and is someone who has a keen sense of when there is a problem.

“That’s why working with him can be quite challenging at times, but ultimately very rewarding. Recently in Brazil, he got a new engine and immediately said that it vibrated less and felt better.

“But we don’t see that in the data, even though we have something like 500 sensors. That’s why the driver’s own feedback is so important and decisive.”

https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/what-r ... t%20better.


Verstappen's sensitivity allowed him to detect the problem before the PU engineers could even see it with the sensors. It's not for no reason that Laurent Mekies called him the best sensor that they have.

"The simple plain truth is that then you get the luck to work with him and the guy is even more extraordinary out of the car than he is in the car," Mekies said.

"It looks stupid to say but that's what it is. You discover the level of his technical sensitivity, we call him the best sensor in the car," the Red Bull boss added, before jokingly pleading with podcast hosts Nicola Hume and Tommo McCluskey: "Don't tell him but he really is the best sensor in the car!"

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10676 ... pen-truth/



Trying to correlate Mclaren's DSQ for illegal plank wear to an engine penalty and suggesting there was a miscarriage of justice is like comparing Mclaren's disqualification to what I had for breakfast. There's no relevance.

[FittingMechanics]

Come on, stop taking a piss.

[Ben1980]

Red Bull shouldn't have been able to add an engine outside a penalty (for performance reasons) but if Mekies just said "we saw a problem" it would have been fine as per Tombazis, so I guess that's it.

They couldn't see the problem because the problem was outside the scope of their sensors. I think we can put this to bed now.

In a separate interview with De Telegraaf, Verstappen’s engine engineer, David Mart, detailed what it is like to work closely with the four-time world champion, highlighting how it can sometimes be quite the challenge.

He said, “Max is a very special talent. He is 100% committed to motor racing and is someone who has a keen sense of when there is a problem.

“That’s why working with him can be quite challenging at times, but ultimately very rewarding. Recently in Brazil, he got a new engine and immediately said that it vibrated less and felt better.

“But we don’t see that in the data, even though we have something like 500 sensors. That’s why the driver’s own feedback is so important and decisive.”

https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/what-r ... t%20better.


Verstappen's sensitivity allowed him to detect the problem before the PU engineers could even see it with the sensors. It's not for no reason that Laurent Mekies called him the best sensor that they have.

"The simple plain truth is that then you get the luck to work with him and the guy is even more extraordinary out of the car than he is in the car," Mekies said.

"It looks stupid to say but that's what it is. You discover the level of his technical sensitivity, we call him the best sensor in the car," the Red Bull boss added, before jokingly pleading with podcast hosts Nicola Hume and Tommo McCluskey: "Don't tell him but he really is the best sensor in the car!"

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10676 ... pen-truth/



Trying to correlate Mclaren's DSQ for illegal plank wear to an engine penalty and suggesting there was a miscarriage of justice is like comparing Mclaren's disqualification to what I had for breakfast. There's no relevance.

Unsure if people are deliberately misconstruing the point.

The fia admitted there was a grey area, and in effect a loophole that existed, but wont going forward.

The point was, its made that there is so much over a hairs width, yet an accepted grey area and a weakness in the current system over something else. Why can't they be on top of things.

[AR3-GP]

Unsure if people are deliberately misconstruing the point.

The fia admitted there was a grey area, and in effect a loophole that existed, but wont going forward.

The point was, its made that there is so much over a hairs width, yet an accepted grey area and a weakness in the current system over something else. Why can't they be on top of things.

I don't remember any criticism of the "grey areas" from you when Mclaren was running a since banned DRS flap on their way to the 2024 WCC which was decided by 14 points, some of which were obtained in races with that banned DRS flap. So bringing the subject of gray areas up now suggest other motivations.

Finally, there is no grey area. Verstappen's power unit experienced vibrations. The engineers couldn't see it. They were no longer there in the new PU. This is the basis for a reliability PU change post-mortem.

[Farnborough]

Red Bull shouldn't have been able to add an engine outside a penalty (for performance reasons) but if Mekies just said "we saw a problem" it would have been fine as per Tombazis, so I guess that's it.

They couldn't see the problem because the problem was outside the scope of their sensors. I think we can put this to bed now.

In a separate interview with De Telegraaf, Verstappen’s engine engineer, David Mart, detailed what it is like to work closely with the four-time world champion, highlighting how it can sometimes be quite the challenge.

He said, “Max is a very special talent. He is 100% committed to motor racing and is someone who has a keen sense of when there is a problem.

“That’s why working with him can be quite challenging at times, but ultimately very rewarding. Recently in Brazil, he got a new engine and immediately said that it vibrated less and felt better.

“But we don’t see that in the data, even though we have something like 500 sensors. That’s why the driver’s own feedback is so important and decisive.”

https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/what-r ... t%20better.


Verstappen's sensitivity allowed him to detect the problem before the PU engineers could even see it with the sensors. It's not for no reason that Laurent Mekies called him the best sensor that they have.

"The simple plain truth is that then you get the luck to work with him and the guy is even more extraordinary out of the car than he is in the car," Mekies said.

"It looks stupid to say but that's what it is. You discover the level of his technical sensitivity, we call him the best sensor in the car," the Red Bull boss added, before jokingly pleading with podcast hosts Nicola Hume and Tommo McCluskey: "Don't tell him but he really is the best sensor in the car!"

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10676 ... pen-truth/



Trying to correlate Mclaren's DSQ for illegal plank wear to an engine penalty and suggesting there was a miscarriage of justice is like comparing Mclaren's disqualification to what I had for breakfast. There's no relevance.

Unsure if people are deliberately misconstruing the point.

The fia admitted there was a grey area, and in effect a loophole that existed, but wont going forward.

The point was, its made that there is so much over a hairs width, yet an accepted grey area and a weakness in the current system over something else. Why can't they be on top of things.

No, you're misrepresentation of the "only 0.12mm" is the core point here.

Clearly ignored what's been discussed, in that this dimension is only the measure used to define the rules .... specifically not how much the car ran lower to the ground. It was running, throughout the race and qualified on pole in its setup to take advantage of enhanced pace each and every lap. Thats accumulation of race time because the stup used. They chose it to get pace, while risking too much with the information they had accumulated in FP.

This being a technical forum, and your resistance to acknowledge that series of fact, makes the comparison you're forwarding niave at best.

[Ben1980]

They couldn't see the problem because the problem was outside the scope of their sensors. I think we can put this to bed now.





https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/what-r ... t%20better.


Verstappen's sensitivity allowed him to detect the problem before the PU engineers could even see it with the sensors. It's not for no reason that Laurent Mekies called him the best sensor that they have.


https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/10676 ... pen-truth/



Trying to correlate Mclaren's DSQ for illegal plank wear to an engine penalty and suggesting there was a miscarriage of justice is like comparing Mclaren's disqualification to what I had for breakfast. There's no relevance.

Unsure if people are deliberately misconstruing the point.

The fia admitted there was a grey area, and in effect a loophole that existed, but wont going forward.

The point was, its made that there is so much over a hairs width, yet an accepted grey area and a weakness in the current system over something else. Why can't they be on top of things.

No, you're misrepresentation of the "only 0.12mm" is the core point here.

Clearly ignored what's been discussed, in that this dimension is only the measure used to define the rules .... specifically not how much the car ran lower to the ground. It was running, throughout the race and qualified on pole in its setup to take advantage of enhanced pace each and every lap. Thats accumulation of race time because the stup used. They chose it to get pace, while risking too much with the information they had accumulated in FP.

This being a technical forum, and your resistance to acknowledge that series of fact, makes the comparison you're forwarding niave at best.

They deserved the DQ not question about it. Don't think ove ever disputed it. It was a complete mess up by the team.

Its just mad, that the whole organisation can fairly dq a team on a hairs width, yet when questioned on the RB change, accept that they don't know really, and its a grey area.

Its just mad how they can be so stringent yet also so wooly. And, I'm sure there are other grey areas they don't know what to do with.