2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[venkyhere]

The reason I think Qatar is a good datum point to "measure performance", is because the cars run as legally low as possible, the average downforce applied per lap is highest of all 24 tracks, the role of braking distances in laptime is less relative to other tracks, and the tyres are stressed to the highest level.

[Badger]

Even if Max manages to get track position it's going to be a tough one. McLaren are much more efficient than they were last year so they will be almost impossible to pass, and will be hard to defend against if their tyres last longer, which they usually do.

[Farnborough]

They are quicker on the straights after the setup changes. He was consistently 4-5kph quicker compared to yesterday.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPM11rpy/image.png

Actually if you compare the fastest Q3 laps, Max is only a few thousanths behind Piastri until T7, post which is where he lost all of the quarter of a second, a large chunk of it in S3.

My guess is that it's the super-inflated tyres (min pres 29F, 26/27R) , at high aero load (super low riding and at high speed as well), once they are upto 'peak temperature' after T6, causing a 'red shift' or 'blue shift' in tyre harmonics w.r.t typical numbers when pressures are normal, whereby the new frequencies now find some sort of resonance with the damping frequencies of the suspension, leading to unexpected vibrations, and cause the bouncing/porpoising, making the car lose critical grip in phases of corner entry/exit.

Remember, one of Max's comments was 'I feel the engine is jumping from it's mounts and moving on it's own, out of phase with the car'. That is a big clue (it's wonderful that the team has a driver who is ultra-sensitive and feels everything happening in the car). I am almost convinced that this is exactly what happened with the Mclarens in Vegas (dangerously low static ride height, high speeds, and high tyre pressures) , just that because the track was bumpy, it led to premature skid wear.

I obseve similar in this, with max driving. One of his most extensive attribute being just how "liquid" his approach is to that entry and turning phase of chassis, to virtually peerless effect. This track and tyre situation takes the potential out of that feel and sphere of operation by ultimately a truncation of just how the tyre starts to release at the extreme of load. Its much more staccato and fractured in reality here.

Its something that's huge in Moto-GP which they describe as "chatter" which plays havoc with some setup/track/tyre combination for them. They also use, just for some tracks, a different rear tyre construction to counter uncontrolled durability aspect in limited tracks.
Effectively, this is the staccato release grip release "frequency" or cadence of the tyre carcass by load/unload cycle, rather than push itself into a phase of pure slide. Ultimately cancelled by straightening trajectory and taking load off the structure .... which of course can't be done through some of these long radius very high energy lateral zones.

[venkyhere]

They are quicker on the straights after the setup changes. He was consistently 4-5kph quicker compared to yesterday.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPM11rpy/image.png

Actually if you compare the fastest Q3 laps, Max is only a few thousanths behind Piastri until T7, post which is where he lost all of the quarter of a second, a large chunk of it in S3.

My guess is that it's the super-inflated tyres (min pres 29F, 26/27R) , at high aero load (super low riding and at high speed as well), once they are upto 'peak temperature' after T6, causing a 'red shift' or 'blue shift' in tyre harmonics w.r.t typical numbers when pressures are normal, whereby the new frequencies now find some sort of resonance with the damping frequencies of the suspension, leading to unexpected vibrations, and cause the bouncing/porpoising, making the car lose critical grip in phases of corner entry/exit.

Remember, one of Max's comments was 'I feel the engine is jumping from it's mounts and moving on it's own, out of phase with the car'. That is a big clue (it's wonderful that the team has a driver who is ultra-sensitive and feels everything happening in the car). I am almost convinced that this is exactly what happened with the Mclarens in Vegas (dangerously low static ride height, high speeds, and high tyre pressures) , just that because the track was bumpy, it led to premature skid wear.

I obseve similar in this, with max driving. One of his most extensive attribute being just how "liquid" his approach is to that entry and turning phase of chassis, to virtually peerless effect. This track and tyre situation takes the potential out of that feel and sphere of operation by ultimately a truncation of just how the tyre starts to release at the extreme of load. Its much more staccato and fractured in reality here.

Its something that's huge in Moto-GP which they describe as "chatter" which plays havoc with some setup/track/tyre combination for them. They also use, just for some tracks, a different rear tyre construction to counter uncontrolled durability aspect in limited tracks.
Effectively, this is the staccato release grip release "frequency" or cadence of the tyre carcass by load/unload cycle, rather than push itself into a phase of pure slide. Ultimately cancelled by straightening trajectory and taking load off the structure .... which of course can't be done through some of these long radius very high energy lateral zones.

The first image that came to mind is the axle tramp (typically in reverse or in a forward climb) that was a feature of old solid axle 4WD vehicles

[Farnborough]

Yes, that longitudinal "tramp" as the tyre distorts against its traction, to ultimately see that traction breeched, tyre recovers shape when released, to then bite traction and go again into the same phase action.

This lateral, you'll probably see the whole tyre wobbling in slo-mo as that frequency arrives at max demand.

Obviously its different in Moto-GP with lean, but they are trying to (swingarm flex etc) to accommodate this in extremis by attempting to not excite the tyre structure, then ultimately need to lower the pace.
Interestingly, when the enhanced carcass is used some chassis come more into competitive range, where they weren't in stock tyre use.

Oscar appears to be absolutely in his zenith driving this track. Taking it right up the definitive edge no more, very effective and disciplined use of lateral peak resources

[venkyhere]

motorsport.com :

Marko believes Verstappen is in better shape in the race than in qualifying after Red Bull dialled out the worst of the car's bouncing issues. And while Verstappen still struggled from oversteer in qualifying, Marko believes the RB21 can be closer to the McLarens on the harder tyre compounds used in the race.

"We changed a lot. First of all, we put an [another] old floor, which was in better shape than the one that was damaged, and we made some other changes," he said. "So we cured it and it showed. We had been more or less half a second behind the whole weekend. And now it's only two tenths, so that makes us feel confident.

Does anyone have a clue which 'old floor' he is referring to ? Monza one or something from pre-Monza ? If former, did they start the weekend with Mexico floor ? If latter, which one is this ?

[search]

motorsport.com :

Marko believes Verstappen is in better shape in the race than in qualifying after Red Bull dialled out the worst of the car's bouncing issues. And while Verstappen still struggled from oversteer in qualifying, Marko believes the RB21 can be closer to the McLarens on the harder tyre compounds used in the race.

"We changed a lot. First of all, we put an [another] old floor, which was in better shape than the one that was damaged, and we made some other changes," he said. "So we cured it and it showed. We had been more or less half a second behind the whole weekend. And now it's only two tenths, so that makes us feel confident.

Does anyone have a clue which 'old floor' he is referring to ? Monza one or something from pre-Monza ? If former, did they start the weekend with Mexico floor ? If latter, which one is this ?

Asked by German Sky which floor they used, he said that there's no new floor anymore, so that experiment is over [for Verstappen]. I don't recall what exactly he said, but to me it sounded like Verstappen still has the Monza specification, but now a part with less km on it.

About Yuki he added that he liked the Mexico floor from the start, so I would assume he still uses it.

[FittingMechanics]

They changed the floor because Max went into the gravel in SQ3.

Change for sprint was like for like because otherwise it would break parc ferme.

[karana]

They changed the floor because Max went into the gravel in SQ3.

Change for sprint was like for like because otherwise it would break parc ferme.

At sprint weekends, replacement parts can be an older specification if there is a shortage of parts and as long as those parts were used previously in a competitive session.

[Sergej]

they are using an old engine

[AR3-GP]

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[AR3-GP]

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[Valeo]

Great Job Honda
Almost as good as the engine that was gone because of the curbs at Canada last year after one Friday

Edit: Max just said it's not an older engine

[search]

they are using an old engine

Sky just asked Verstappen why it was necessary to switch to an old engine, and he replied "it's not old".

[f1isgood]

Great Job Honda
Almost as good as the engine that was gone because of the curbs at Canada last year after one Friday

Edit: Max just said it's not an older engine

The Brazil one might have given them some options to have reduced mileage on the previous one.

In any case, Honda has relatively not been as good as Mercedes for instance with their support these regulations.