2025 McLaren F1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Lando had his crash into Oscar in Canada, what were the other mistakes by Lando?
Oscar had his crash into Lando in Austin, Baku overdriving and crash? Am I missing something.

I agree that Max is more clinical, he extracts more from the car, he puts more pressure on other drivers, but he is not perfect.

[chrisc90]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Lando had his crash into Oscar in Canada, what were the other mistakes by Lando?
Oscar had his crash into Lando in Austin, Baku overdriving and crash? Am I missing something.

I agree that Max is more clinical, he extracts more from the car, he puts more pressure on other drivers, but he is not perfect.

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

[FittingMechanics]

What could be the reason that Max did not have to fight a team mate ...

Maybe it's the fact that he didn't have competent one since Ricciardo?

Perez was quite good, I suspect he had some slight decline but also the car became hard for him to handle but he was good for a while.

It's not a coincidence that these young drivers look very strong in the sister car. I think the car was always very very strong when it could be handled, but you needed to be a top driver and probably quite an experienced driver to handle it.

You might compare it to a wild mustang, huge amounts of raw speed, very hard to handle.

Luckily for the WCC a second driver wasn't able to make a dent on Mclaren in the WCC, but it did help Max in the WDC, being the focal point of the team.

Perez (and other Red Bull drivers) have a huge issue that the gaps became so small so when they are a few tenths down on Max they tend to end up much lower in qualifying. This then exaggerates the difference. I also think that they use the second car as a sort of test/mule car that does the dirty work for Verstappen even if it hurts the second driver. This is obviously great for them as they prioritize WDC success but it will make life hard for these second drivers coming into Max's team.

[FittingMechanics]

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

OK, losing some positions at the start is a fair complaint but he didn't lose that many points because of it. And he improved a lot in this respect.

Pole Australia - won
Pole Monaco - won
Pole Austria - won
Pole Belgium - P2 (Piastri won but I don't think he lost position at the start)
Pole Mexico - won
Pole Brazil - won
Pole Vegas - DSQ - Max won, NOR was in P2

In Vegas he was already in "protect the lead" mode so I think it's unfair to call it a mistake.

[Darth-Piekus]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

[bauc]

I’d still think that McLaren have the favouritism edge to Lando.

I saw this posted on one comment thread on Social media so not 100% sure on the accuracy

https://ibb.co/Gvnrp8pH

LOL bias 1.0.1

[chrisc90]

Lap 1 turn 1 losing the position is a big one.
I’d also say Lando often doesn’t get the overtake done as quickly as he should.

OK, losing some positions at the start is a fair complaint but he didn't lose that many points because of it. And he improved a lot in this respect.

Pole Australia - won
Pole Monaco - won
Pole Austria - won
Pole Belgium - P2 (Piastri won but I don't think he lost position at the start)
Pole Mexico - won
Pole Brazil - won
Pole Vegas - DSQ - Max won, NOR was in P2

In Vegas he was already in "protect the lead" mode so I think it's unfair to call it a mistake.

I just don’t think Lando (or the team) is clinical enough to maximise every opportunity which is what you need when you’re in a championship battle. Which was why it’s gone down to the final race of the season, and not being able to chase down a 50point gap last season with a winning car.

No disrespect to Lando, as it’s the points tally at the end that decides the WDC.

[chrisc90]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

[Balalu]

Unfortunately I don't think it is that subjective, we definitely made a lot of errors.
Luckily, there was usually another Mclaren driver to mop up and for the first half of the season, a poor race would still likely get a podium.

Like I said before, When Lando had his issues at the start of the season, the car was still substantially better and so he still got big points. Fortunately Lando came good when it counted and unfortunately for Oscar, he struggled when other cars continued to develop and catch up, and we drew a line on the 25 car.

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

It's impossible to have proof. Discussions at the cafè are impossible to regulate, and they do happen, especially were money is involved. Thinking otherwise is naive. RedBull should be forced to sell the second team.

On another note, I'm surprised that yesterday's McLaren masterclass strategy has been largely unremarked. So many are quick to poo on them when they mess up, but they even outsmarted the famed RedBull strategy team. Yesterday was pure class from them.

[chrisc90]

Every competitor pretty much had issues. Nobody is perfect. Our drivers however lost more than 60 points each from things outside their control not to mention they had the pressure of each other and their own battle. The opposition has two garages working for him plus a sister team helping with data and on track when needed and that takes a lot of pressure. That is a big boost our boys dont have and should be taken into consideration when doing comparisons.

I think that’s a bit of a tough accusation to make when there is no proof it is factual. Have you any evidence of this? Can’t see RB and RBR sharing setup information when the aero platforms, and drivers requirements are completely different. Might aswell say they ask McLaren for their setup information too as it’s about the same comparison.

It's impossible to have proof. Discussions at the cafè are impossible to regulate, and they do happen, especially were money is involved. Thinking otherwise is naive. RedBull should be forced to sell the second team.

On another note, I'm surprised that yesterday's McLaren masterclass strategy has been largely unremarked. So many are quick to poo on them when they mess up, but they even outsmarted the famed RedBull strategy team. Yesterday was pure class from them.

Equally naive to look at it from the other way too then. I’d even say it’s worse to accuse them of doing something they aren’t.

Re strategy. I wouldn’t say it was outclassed. Piastri went long, and Max gained a whole pitstop deficit on him by the end of the race.
But doing things like that and making it hard for Red bull to do anything is what they should have been doing all season when it’s 2 cars vs 1 and they fail to challenge for the win vs max.
Overall, there was little red bull could do to get Max the WDC on strategy. It would have needed Lando to have serious misfortune or a DNF really. Lando would have had to have been P5 realistically for Red Bull to get the WDC. (P4 Oscar would have just boxed and come out behind Lando or parked the car allowing Lando P3)

I think once Red bull could see there was no threat from behind to Lando, it was a sealed deal. Charles tries for a handful of laps, then it was done and dusted. All McLaren had to do was copy Charles strategy to protect from the undercut. Nothing masterclass in my opinion. It was a easy cruise and WDC race for Lando in reality

[mwillems]

Oh yeah, Max made mistakes, but was still better than our boys - though I will be clear, I do think that the car suits him and he can drive it very well, I don't think it is all Max as some of the RB fans like to portray. That doesn't bother me though, as I've said before. I'm happy with our boys, though if we get into a tight fight next year and these margins count more, then it changes things, but they have time to improve and as I've said before, I feel that Oscars peak will exceed Lando, not that that counts for anything today.

Lando had his crash into Oscar in Canada, what were the other mistakes by Lando?
Oscar had his crash into Lando in Austin, Baku overdriving and crash? Am I missing something.

I agree that Max is more clinical, he extracts more from the car, he puts more pressure on other drivers, but he is not perfect.

• Lando binned it at Jeddah

• Made tons of smaller driving errors at the start of the season with a car he couldn't handle

• Had more pace than Oscar when catching him at Spa but kept losing all the time he'd gained when going off track multiple times

• Crashed into Oscar at Canada.

• He actually had a poor weekend at Canada, Qualifying 7th due to mistakes in Q.

• In his own words he lost eight points by locking up in China sprint Q.

• Topping Q1 and Q2 in Bahrain and screwing up Q3 and qualifying 6th, finishing 3rd

• Not helped by getting a 5s penalty from rolling forward at the start at Bahrain.

Making serious mistakes in 1/5 races is not great especially good, considering multiple weekends also had multiple mistakes, and this is not even considering other smaller issues like missing a pit box and losing a couple of seconds.

I'm not trying to overplay it all or downplay Lando, but we do need to be honest, he's still got work to do.

At the same time, I do think he made a lot less mistakes than some other fans like to come in here and say, which was that any time we didn't have pole by a clear margin then the drivers were terrible. Because to them it was inconceivable that the RB could be fast or the MCL39 have some flaws, the only answer being Max is god and Mclaren drivers are poor - which certainly came across as a highly subjective opinion based on favouritism.

[FittingMechanics]

Thank you. Forgot about Jeddah.

Some of these others were not really that big but they do add up.

[Emag]

Ironically I think this wasn’t Lando’s best season, which is sad in a way, because newer fans just bashed on him a lot. You can’t put a down a WDC though, so in terms of results, it was obviously his best.

I still think his 2021 season was relatively better, considering what he achieved with what he had. Coming back to flat floor cars next year, who knows, maybe he starts getting fiesty again.

[mwillems]

Thank you. Forgot about Jeddah.

Some of these others were not really that big but they do add up.

Thing is, I haven't even mentioned the poor starts from the beginning of the year when his confidence was down lol Dropping from 10th to 12th at Jeddah on lap one, for instance. Did he lose spots at the start in Canada too?

It does all add up, and in places like Canada and Bahrain it was weekend wide mistakes. but he got the WDC and he gets to try again next year!

On another note, I was also reading that Max was considering backing up the pack, but couldn't because of the split tyre strategy that Stella implemented as a means to them managing the race.

I think I heard that Stella said he couldn't sleep before the race, until the idea of split tyre strategy occurred, then he slept like a baby lol

[chrisc90]

Why wouldn’t max have been able to back the pack up?
Surely the split tyre strategy would have only worked if Oscar was in the lead and could build a big enough gap to Max so when Max putted he wasn’t ever going to come first.
Backing the pack up would have meant that the rear runners would have have to put early to give the undercut the chance of leapfrogging the cars infront. I think in that case McLaren would have had to take the lead in that instance in pitting Lando before the others.

I think RBR knew there was super little they could do realistically when the 2 behind Lando - Russel and Leclerc, didn’t have any pace to challenge Lando for position