2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1isgood
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
12 Dec 2025, 00:33
Red Bull + Verstappen whenever there is half a chance to win be like: :D :D :D
Call a spade, a spade.

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Wouter
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max on Wednesday in Milton Keynes.



Today Max is ill, he has the flu.
.
Flu outbreak strikes Milton Keynes with dozens of people needing hospital treatment

By Sally Murrer
Published 9th Dec 2025, 11:15 GMT

Milton Keynes is in the grips of a winter flu outbreak, with experts warning the worst could yet be to come.

And figures show there’s been an increase in flu patients are suffering symptoms severe enough to need treatment at Milton Keynes University Hospital.

Nationally, the flu season has started earlier this year and the the NHS is bracing itself for an "unprecedent wave" of infections.
.
https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/peo ... nt-5435371
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AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Exceptional bad luck
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Shame he didn't try to show up.
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Racing Green in 2028

Jdn1327
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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With out Max...F1 is just boring.

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Wouter
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 02:37
Shame he didn't try to show up.
.
How do you know he didn't try? If the doctor says you can't travel, that's the end of it.
He also can't go to his beloved final of the Heinken sim racing event in Madrid today.
He would never disappoint those finalists and eliminated sim drivers if he weren't ill.
He also had a strange look on his face/in the eyes on the big screen and tired.
We don't know him like that.

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Vettel165
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Max is a legend of our sport.. He is my inspiration, never give up, never stop believing... The season starts already in 3 months, we have a big reset...

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lio007
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Vettel165 wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 19:19
Max is a legend of our sport.. He is my inspiration, never give up, never stop believing... The season starts already in 3 months, we have a big reset...
Indeed.
Excinting times ahead of us. I'm also very curious how many new engineers will join the team in the sense as "is Red Bull still able to attract engineers from rival teams" with CH, AN, HM, JW, RM gone...there must be some money available for a "shopping tour". Especially as Max' Manager mentioned that it's also important what new people can the team bring on board.

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Wouter
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Great news. Max couldn't go to Oezbekistan yesterday and Madrid today because he had the flu but he has recovered.
He and Kelly had lunch today at Cipriani and they were filmed.

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Emag
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Somewhat off-topic, but these last couple of weeks I have been working on polishing a statistic-based model to calculate driver performance. My goal was to build the most unbiased methodology possible, and I just recently published the results to f1insightshub.

To give a high-level view of how it works, the model calculates a "Driver Value Rating" based primarily on Median Finishing Position, ensuring that consistent results at the front of the grid are rewarded exponentially more than midfield survival. It determines each car's true potential using data-driven targets rather than just Championship standings. This allows elite drivers to score "Overperformance" points even when driving the fastest cars, provided they are consistently beating the car's statistical "par score." Finally, the score is adjusted by context-aware modifiers for teammate dominance (weighted split between race and qualifying) and team carrying (points share), while protecting top drivers from consistency penalties caused by mechanical DNFs.

I did various tweaks to end up with something that made sense mathematically. Through all experimentations, there is no driver other than Max Verstappen who scores a perfect 10.0 in this model every year since 2018. Even after applying stricter penalties because I initially felt 10.0s were popping up too frequently, his score did not budge at all.

To give some context, a 10.0 in this system represents a "special" season where a driver maximizes positional value, dominates their teammate, and statistically outperforms the machinery. Outside of Max (who achieved this every year from 2018 to 2025), this score was achieved by only three other drivers in that entire bracket:

*Lewis Hamilton (2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
*Fernando Alonso (2023)
*Charles Leclerc (2025)

It really highlights how difficult perfection is to achieve. Yet Max scored it every single year since 2018. I have been impressed by Max ever since his rookie season, so this didn't exactly surprise me, but I'll be honest, seeing the data visualize that level of sustained performance really unlocked some perspective.
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AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Emag wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 00:00
To give some context, a 10.0 in this system represents a "special" season where a driver maximizes positional value, dominates their teammate, and statistically outperforms the machinery. Outside of Max (who achieved this every year from 2018 to 2025), this score was achieved by only three other drivers in that entire bracket:

*Lewis Hamilton (2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
*Fernando Alonso (2023)
*Charles Leclerc (2025)

It really highlights how difficult perfection is to achieve. Yet Max scored it every single year since 2018. I have been impressed by Max ever since his rookie season, so this didn't exactly surprise me, but I'll be honest, seeing the data visualize that level of sustained performance really unlocked some perspective.

I think the rating system is interesting. Is there any version that does not result in a perfect score for any driver? It seems just qualitatively strange when we know that drivers do not drive perfect seasons. I've always been interested in things like race starts, racecraft, in-season penalties, and so on that could add another quantitative layer , but that would be difficult without reviewing every single race in every single season again (but we could take shifts :wink: :lol: ).

I checked some other seasons. Qualitatively Lando Norris was the 3rd best driver of 2021, but your ranking system places him 4th, behind Pierre Gasly. No one who watched that season would put Gasly ahead of Norris in 2021. What would need to be fixed here? On the other hand, it rates Lando Norris as 2nd overall in 2024. I could not disagree more with that :lol:
Last edited by AR3-GP on 14 Dec 2025, 00:53, edited 4 times in total.
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astracrazy
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
13 Dec 2025, 22:41
Great news. Max couldn't go to Oezbekistan yesterday and Madrid today because he had the flu but he has recovered.
He and Kelly had lunch today at Cipriani and they were filmed.

Try harder. Thats a video from pre-covid times with his ex .

Embarrassing yourself :lol:

Emag
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 00:44
Emag wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 00:00
To give some context, a 10.0 in this system represents a "special" season where a driver maximizes positional value, dominates their teammate, and statistically outperforms the machinery. Outside of Max (who achieved this every year from 2018 to 2025), this score was achieved by only three other drivers in that entire bracket:

*Lewis Hamilton (2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
*Fernando Alonso (2023)
*Charles Leclerc (2025)

It really highlights how difficult perfection is to achieve. Yet Max scored it every single year since 2018. I have been impressed by Max ever since his rookie season, so this didn't exactly surprise me, but I'll be honest, seeing the data visualize that level of sustained performance really unlocked some perspective.

I think the rating system is interesting. Is there any version that does not result in a perfect score for any driver? It seems just qualitatively strange when we know that drivers do not drive perfect seasons. I've always been interested in things like race starts, racecraft, in-season penalties, and so on that could add another quantitative layer , but that would be difficult without reviewing every single race in every single season again (but we could take shifts :wink: :lol: ).

I checked some other seasons. Qualitatively Lando Norris was the 3rd best driver of 2021, but your ranking system places him 4th, behind Pierre Gasly. No one who watched that season would put Gasly ahead of Norris in 2021. What would need to be fixed here? On the other hand, it rates Lando Norris as 2nd overall in 2024. I could not disagree more with that :lol:

That’s a totally fair reaction, and it's good that it's asked here because I have the word capacity to explain what the model is and isn’t trying to do.

First, on the 10.0 thing:
The score does not mean “this driver drove a perfect season in every sense.” It’s more of a statistical saturation point. In some seasons the inputs (median results, car-adjusted overperformance, teammate gaps, consistency) add up to more than the scale allows, so the score just caps at 10. In other words, it’s saying given the variables I’m measuring, this driver completely maxed them out, so it doesn't really matter in the statistical sense if they did better. So basically, the claim is not that they did no mistakes, no bad starts, no penalties, etc.

Now, on Pierre 2021 vs Lando 2021, this is where the philosophy of the model matters a lot.

Gasly 2021 is heavily rewarded because:
*He finished extremely high relative to AlphaTauri’s expected performance
*His median finish position was excellent for that car
*He absolutely crushed his teammate all year
*There were very few low-end results dragging down his median

So from a “value extracted from the seat” perspective, Pierre looks insane statistically. That doesn’t mean the model is saying “Gasly is a better driver than Norris in absolute terms.” It’s saying Gasly got more out of an AlphaTauri than Norris got out of a McLaren, especially once Lando’s late-season drop-off pulls his median and consistency down.

This is also why Lando falls behind Pierre in 2021:
*McLaren had a higher baseline expectation than AlphaTauri
*Lando’s end-of-season dip hurts a median-based model more than people expect
*His teammate gap, while good, wasn’t as lopsided as Gasly vs Tsunoda

If you asked “who would I pick for a top seat in 2022?”, basically everyone would probably say Norris at the time. The model is not answering that question though, because that's where it turns a bit subjective and as humans we have a bit more context as well. This is just purely number-based and it's answering “who extracted the most relative performance from their machinery over this season?”

As for the 2024 results Lando being 2nd comes from the opposite effect:

*He outperformed McLaren’s early-season baseline
*Strong teammate dominance
*Much stronger consistency across the year

So again, it’s the same logic applied symmetrically, even if it clashes with gut feeling.
The model also brakes down the reasoning for the scoring. You will see that Lando gets a boost for dominating over his teammate "harder" than Charles did that season.

As for adding things like race starts, racecraft, penalties, you’re absolutely right, that would add another layer. The problem is that once you go there, you add some subjectivity, which is not in itself a bad thing, but there's a data limitation as well. Starts can depend on grid slot and strategy, penalties are inconsistently applied, and racecraft usually requires subjective judgement or manual tagging of events. At that point, your model is not fully data-driven unless you’re willing to annotate every race by hand, which unfortunately requires time I do not have.

So in short I will frame it this way:
This ranking isn’t a “who is the best driver?” list, it's rather a "who extracted the most relative performance from their machinery over this season" list. It’s a seasonal value-extraction model. Disagreements are to be expected, because it’s deliberately answering a narrower, more mechanical question, but let's be honest here. Even if it was the perfect model, there's always going to be disagreements.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

Badger
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Emag wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 00:00
Somewhat off-topic, but these last couple of weeks I have been working on polishing a statistic-based model to calculate driver performance. My goal was to build the most unbiased methodology possible, and I just recently published the results to f1insightshub.

To give a high-level view of how it works, the model calculates a "Driver Value Rating" based primarily on Median Finishing Position, ensuring that consistent results at the front of the grid are rewarded exponentially more than midfield survival. It determines each car's true potential using data-driven targets rather than just Championship standings. This allows elite drivers to score "Overperformance" points even when driving the fastest cars, provided they are consistently beating the car's statistical "par score." Finally, the score is adjusted by context-aware modifiers for teammate dominance (weighted split between race and qualifying) and team carrying (points share), while protecting top drivers from consistency penalties caused by mechanical DNFs.

I did various tweaks to end up with something that made sense mathematically. Through all experimentations, there is no driver other than Max Verstappen who scores a perfect 10.0 in this model every year since 2018. Even after applying stricter penalties because I initially felt 10.0s were popping up too frequently, his score did not budge at all.

To give some context, a 10.0 in this system represents a "special" season where a driver maximizes positional value, dominates their teammate, and statistically outperforms the machinery. Outside of Max (who achieved this every year from 2018 to 2025), this score was achieved by only three other drivers in that entire bracket:

*Lewis Hamilton (2018, 2019, 2020, 2021)
*Fernando Alonso (2023)
*Charles Leclerc (2025)

It really highlights how difficult perfection is to achieve. Yet Max scored it every single year since 2018. I have been impressed by Max ever since his rookie season, so this didn't exactly surprise me, but I'll be honest, seeing the data visualize that level of sustained performance really unlocked some perspective.
Nice, but it's probably not specific enough if it yields a 10 that often. Calibrate it so that only the very best season yields a 10. Take 2025 or 2023 for example as the benchmark for Max. Would be way more useful that way.

Emag
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Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Badger wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 01:24
Nice, but it's probably not specific enough if it yields a 10 that often. Calibrate it so that only the very best season yields a 10. Take 2025 or 2023 for example as the benchmark for Max. Would be way more useful that way.
I actually did try some options which applied harsher penalties on consistency and bad results, however Max turned out the best in those as well, just with a high 9s score. In the end, the ranking didn't change much actually, that's why I decided to use this last iteration which applied some saturation and granted a 10 for any season that, at least statistically speaking, was pretty much as good as it can get.
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