2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Badger
Badger
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Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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f1isgood wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 16:56
Badger wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 14:47
f1isgood wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 13:09
Good riddance is all I'll say for this one. He did many of the things he claims he didn't. Too much ego. It's easy to use the Dutch Media, the same Media that caused all the problems at the start of last year.
And Horner was a saint? Let’s be real, these two both played the game of trying to have the other one ousted. It was bad for the team and it’s good that they’re both gone now.
Marko is a provable liar given he did make it about Perez's nationality in 2023. He is just trying to save his face after being fired. Also, Horner was in the seat till Yoovidhya had majority stake which changed in May 25 and in July 25 Horner was fired. You don't need to be a genius to put two and two together. In any case it's very good riddance. His second driver development has been an utter failure since 2019 which, IMO is the only thing he was anyways responsible for doing.
Horner famously never lied about anything...

Look, I honestly don't find the personal angles that interesting, it misses the wider story. When DM died the team was left in limbo over who had control. Technically the Thais held the majority of voting rights but the F1 project had always been the responsibility of RB Austria and Mateschitz. Horner, presumably looking to expand his control over the team, aligned himself with the Thai side. Marko, having always been the representative of RB Austria, opposed this development and worked to retain Austrian control of the operation. For a while they kept it together as the team was winning everything, but then the scandal broke out around Horner and everything started to crumble. Horner wasn't ousted at the time because the Thais stuck by him, but a year later it seems like a truce broke out between the two ownership groups. They agreed to settle their score and restructure the ownership split, and now it seems like RB Austria is back in charge of the operation. Austria clearly wanted Horner gone so he was fired immediately. With Horner ousted and Austria back in charge Marko had done his job, so he's going too. The Verstappens seemingly sided with the Marko/Austria side from the start, but have now accepted that Marko isn't needed anymore. That to me is the biggest sign that things have calmed down now, Verstappen didn't say a word about Marko leaving which he opposed ferociously when Horner was still in the team.

euv2
euv2
1
Joined: 14 Mar 2025, 09:34

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jos also was very against Horner, so Max by default also supported his dad. It was Helmut, Jos, Max, Austria vs Thai and Horner. Thais were under constant pressure to justify Horner, but as performance dipped + combined with the scandal, the Thais withdrew their support.

Going by Helmut words, it also seems like he was backstabbed by the Austrian's, hence his comment about 'you think you understand people'. There are no saints in this fight, everyone fought dirty, including the Austrians with their constant negative PR against Horner by using their Dutch journos. Horner thinking he could somehow get the better of a 49% shareholder, with operational rights to F1.

Verstappen might be calm now, but the core team around him has disappeared fast, he doesn't have people as many people he feels loyal too, if the cars in the next 1-2 years don't perform, it will be easier than ever for him to jump ship. If Verstappen jumps ship, there's a big slump coming for Red Bull.

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ME4ME
79
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Mekies:
“Sure, we wasted time on the 2026 development, but in return, we gained trust and certainty. Next year, the challenge is titanic: we’re building the engine in-house with the support of Ford. We know we’ll have to struggle at the start; it would be naive to say no”
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/laurent- ... 2026-fears

This sets the expectations at a reasonable level I think.
I thrust this more than Marko's line about going for both championships again next year.
Back to 2014 kinda results I guess.

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Wouter
114
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 22:21
Mekies:
“Sure, we wasted time on the 2026 development, but in return, we gained trust and certainty. Next year, the challenge is titanic: we’re building the engine in-house with the support of Ford. We know we’ll have to struggle at the start; it would be naive to say no”
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/laurent- ... 2026-fears

This sets the expectations at a reasonable level I think.
I thrust this more than Marko's line about going for both championships again next year.
Back to 2014 kinda results I guess.
.
This comes from the not so reliable GP Blog and it says: "Mekies told Corriere della Sera."

So the original source is the not so reliable Corriere della Sera.
The Power of Dreams!

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ME4ME
79
Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Its not a rumour or some anonymous source speculation. Its a quote.

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Sieper
73
Joined: 14 Mar 2017, 15:19

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The red bull,team is too capable to not be there. Ok, engine. But i think all engines will be in the ball park. Without mgu-h.

To me, the active aero just screams (rules) bending. This whole rearwing from the current area was to prevent moving mainwingplanes.

That will decide who wins. The last airbender.

Watto
Watto
5
Joined: 10 Mar 2022, 15:12

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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euv2 wrote:
14 Dec 2025, 19:22
Jos also was very against Horner, so Max by default also supported his dad. It was Helmut, Jos, Max, Austria vs Thai and Horner. Thais were under constant pressure to justify Horner, but as performance dipped + combined with the scandal, the Thais withdrew their support.

Going by Helmut words, it also seems like he was backstabbed by the Austrian's, hence his comment about 'you think you understand people'. There are no saints in this fight, everyone fought dirty, including the Austrians with their constant negative PR against Horner by using their Dutch journos. Horner thinking he could somehow get the better of a 49% shareholder, with operational rights to F1.

Verstappen might be calm now, but the core team around him has disappeared fast, he doesn't have people as many people he feels loyal too, if the cars in the next 1-2 years don't perform, it will be easier than ever for him to jump ship. If Verstappen jumps ship, there's a big slump coming for Red Bull.
I tend to think Didi saw this coming and why a big reason behind him wanting to sell 50% of the team to Porsche. Think he saw the conflict between Horner and Marko and more corporate control under the team. The report the other day that Marko tried to sign Alex Paulo without head offices knowledge as being perhaps the final straw for him to be removed. I think it's a hard call, I get from their pod its hard to run a team with someone running rogue but also that is very much the DNA of Red Bull and their success too.

I think this was probably inevitable in the end. I though one would have survived but 2 people that both wanted control

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venkyhere
30
Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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All the politics and narrative wars ... none of it explains "once Horner was gone, car got better", because Horner is not an engineer, and I don't think he had anything to do with engineering decisions/processes.

The only explanation that makes sense logically - "Mekies brought a fresh perspective and asked some engineering questions, which helped unearth hidden flaws with Redbull's factory tools / floor design flaws". Which in turn, asks more uncomfortable questions :

a) why wasn't anyone else within the company able to ask-Qs/point-out-flaws ? Is it a case of incompetence within the ranks, or is it a case of tech leadership snubbing mid/low level engineers ? whichever is the case, that could be a death knell that marks the start of an 'engineering decline'.

b) I know this is a favourite within the Drive-to-Survive type audience, where they think one-person (driver, engineer, TP) is responsible for everything and forget the rest of several hundred employees in the whole organization, but it's a Question that can no more be seen as trivial - Just how much did the loss of Newey/Marshall etc actually affect the team ? Just how much dependent was the team on these 'top tech guys who left' for car setup ?

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think Mekies was just lucky. Everyone at Red Bull was trying to find a solution for the car because they wanted to keep Max happy. This was a major priority and in the end they found some solutions. It wasn't perfect and they had issues finding a perfect setup each race but they at least found it majority of the time. This was critical for them as Max was/is considering leaving.

If Horner stayed the story would have been the same but with more printouts and complaints about stewarding.

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SiLo
139
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 11:01
I think Mekies was just lucky. Everyone at Red Bull was trying to find a solution for the car because they wanted to keep Max happy. This was a major priority and in the end they found some solutions. It wasn't perfect and they had issues finding a perfect setup each race but they at least found it majority of the time. This was critical for them as Max was/is considering leaving.

If Horner stayed the story would have been the same but with more printouts and complaints about stewarding.
Horner is just an easy scapegoat at this point. Crazy really considering the success he's overseen with the team. Marko is an arse though so he can't help himself.
Felipe Baby!

f1isgood
f1isgood
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Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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venkyhere wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 09:12
All the politics and narrative wars ... none of it explains "once Horner was gone, car got better", because Horner is not an engineer, and I don't think he had anything to do with engineering decisions/processes.

The only explanation that makes sense logically - "Mekies brought a fresh perspective and asked some engineering questions, which helped unearth hidden flaws with Redbull's factory tools / floor design flaws". Which in turn, asks more uncomfortable questions :

a) why wasn't anyone else within the company able to ask-Qs/point-out-flaws ? Is it a case of incompetence within the ranks, or is it a case of tech leadership snubbing mid/low level engineers ? whichever is the case, that could be a death knell that marks the start of an 'engineering decline'.

b) I know this is a favourite within the Drive-to-Survive type audience, where they think one-person (driver, engineer, TP) is responsible for everything and forget the rest of several hundred employees in the whole organization, but it's a Question that can no more be seen as trivial - Just how much did the loss of Newey/Marshall etc actually affect the team ? Just how much dependent was the team on these 'top tech guys who left' for car setup ?
Upgrades made the car better. Mekies produced an upgrade that took 4 race weekends to understand. Horner was the TP when the upgrades were commissioned. This whole setup thing is BS. They need three sessions to setup the car regardless of the weekend. The upgrade actually gave them performance which they missed in medium/slow speed.
Call a spade, a spade.

f1isgood
f1isgood
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Joined: 31 Oct 2022, 19:52
Location: Continental Europe

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 11:55
FittingMechanics wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 11:01
I think Mekies was just lucky. Everyone at Red Bull was trying to find a solution for the car because they wanted to keep Max happy. This was a major priority and in the end they found some solutions. It wasn't perfect and they had issues finding a perfect setup each race but they at least found it majority of the time. This was critical for them as Max was/is considering leaving.

If Horner stayed the story would have been the same but with more printouts and complaints about stewarding.
Horner is just an easy scapegoat at this point. Crazy really considering the success he's overseen with the team. Marko is an arse though so he can't help himself.
Pretty much.
Call a spade, a spade.

Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I also think Horner getting the boot wasn't good for RedBull. I don't believe he was just a random guy that by coincidence ended up riding the success wave of the team. Clearly whatever he was doing, resonated well with this team in the background and they had the results to back it up. Had they had a competitive PU in the early turbo-hybrid era, this team would have been challenging for titles all the way through, which is remarkable to say the least. There's barely been any bad RedBull car since 2009.

The problem is that there were obviously some bad blood kind of sh*t going in the background in the last couple of years. High ranking individuals in the team ended up fighting with each other with regards to who gets the biggest piece of the pie after Dietrich death. Which is sad. In the end Horner kind of sealed his fate with the whole "cocoa puffs" fiasco, but I think that was just the catalyst that was used as an excuse to justify his departure. He had started to make enemies within before that.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

Badger
Badger
3
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 11:55
FittingMechanics wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 11:01
I think Mekies was just lucky. Everyone at Red Bull was trying to find a solution for the car because they wanted to keep Max happy. This was a major priority and in the end they found some solutions. It wasn't perfect and they had issues finding a perfect setup each race but they at least found it majority of the time. This was critical for them as Max was/is considering leaving.

If Horner stayed the story would have been the same but with more printouts and complaints about stewarding.
Horner is just an easy scapegoat at this point. Crazy really considering the success he's overseen with the team. Marko is an arse though so he can't help himself.
They both oversaw the success of the team. Marko's word was effectively law for the entire period when DM was alive.

Badger
Badger
3
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Emag wrote:
15 Dec 2025, 14:58
I also think Horner getting the boot wasn't good for RedBull. I don't believe he was just a random guy that by coincidence ended up riding the success wave of the team. Clearly whatever he was doing, resonated well with this team in the background and they had the results to back it up. Had they had a competitive PU in the early turbo-hybrid era, this team would have been challenging for titles all the way through, which is remarkable to say the least. There's barely been any bad RedBull car since 2009.

The problem is that there were obviously some bad blood kind of sh*t going in the background in the last couple of years. High ranking individuals in the team ended up fighting with each other with regards to who gets the biggest piece of the pie after Dietrich death. Which is sad. In the end Horner kind of sealed his fate with the whole "cocoa puffs" fiasco, but I think that was just the catalyst that was used as an excuse to justify his departure. He had started to make enemies within before that.
Success isn't eternal. Horner was a great leader for a long time but by the end he started slipping, the results and his personal decision making reflected that. The calm focus that the team found towards the end of the season is exactly what they needed to get back to.