Concept power units from 2030

[gruntguru]

Even in road use, a "hybrid" transmissions allows the ice to operate at its peak efficiency for most or all of the time. The most efficient package would be a charged engine. A charged engine will also be lighter than NA and have lower friction losses.

[vorticism]

How much farther beyond 50:50 can the MGUK:ICE power proportion be taken? In favor of the MGUK portion.

[mzso]

How much farther beyond 50:50 can the MGUK:ICE power proportion be taken? In favor of the MGUK portion.

Well, obviously 100% MGU, EVs. So not sure what you want to ask about.

[vorticism]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

[De Wet]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

At this rate F1 can't be called a motorsport anymore.

[mzso]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

At this rate F1 can't be called a motorsport anymore.

Because it has Two motors instead of three?

[mzso]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

The answer is the same. There's a variety of ways you could go about it. First and foremost they should use higher energy density battery cells, and loosen up replacement limits, that helps with everything.
Beyond that they could swap batteries with every pit stop, or swap cars, or use fuel cells.

[JRodrigues]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

The answer is the same. There's a variety of ways you could go about it. First and foremost they should use higher energy density battery cells, and loosen up replacement limits, that helps with everything.
Beyond that they could swap batteries with every pit stop, or swap cars, or use fuel cells.

Or use a range extender to recharge batteries, just like the Audi RS Q-etron.

[wuzak]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

They will be struugling to get to 50% with the current rules.

In fact, the original split was estimated to be 400kW ICE/350kW MGUK, which clearly isn't 50/50.

To make sure the energy doesn't run out, they restrict the MGUK output further above certain speeds.

And because some tracks are so fast, with barely any braking or part throttle, the allowed energy recovery per lap (and, therefore, usage) will be lowered by 40%.

The only way to have greater than half the output come from the MGUK is to have a substantially larger, and heavier, battery that gets topped up from the ICE through the race.

But the bulk of the electrical energy to be used in the car will have to be stored before the start.

For 2026, the energy coming from the battery will be roughly 10-20% of the overall energy, depending on track.

[Ferry]

Beyond that they could swap batteries with every pit stop, or swap cars, or use fuel cells.

Or shorten the races. Instead of 1,5 hours lico, they could run 45 minutes full attack. Like the sprint races today. Formula E is closing in on F1 in performance. I wonder where the sweet spot in race length is, where F1 and FE could compete. Lap times in Monaco isn't that much of a difference.

[Cold Fussion]

Formula e was 20 seconds a lap slower in qualifying than formula 1 at Monaco this year, likely the most favourable comparison you could make between the two series. On a proper circuit they’re probably slower than GT3 cars.

[Ferry]

The new generation 4 of FE cars are introduced soon. They are much quicker. So it will not be 20 s difference next year. Maybe more like 10 seconds. And that's with grooved tires. Put them on slicks, and maybe 4-5 s quicker. And 2026 F1 probably slower.

[mzso]

The topic is F1 cars and it perhaps goes without saying that they will need to complete race distances. Hence, how much farther beyond 50% of the total power output could be supplied by an MGUK & ES. While still performing like an F1 car for a race distance. Hard mode: no pack changes nor refueling.

The answer is the same. There's a variety of ways you could go about it. First and foremost they should use higher energy density battery cells, and loosen up replacement limits, that helps with everything.
Beyond that they could swap batteries with every pit stop, or swap cars, or use fuel cells.

Or use a range extender to recharge batteries, just like the Audi RS Q-etron.

You'd need a hundreds of kW-s of power. First from an ICE then from a generator, and then an electric motor that more powerful than both. Plus probably a sizeable battery to take all that power. That would probably be very heavy.

[TeamKoolGreen]

with the 2026 PUs having a 4 year development time, it is unlikely that they will be replaced before 2035.

Well we could see that the biggest most researched and invested in chassis regulations , that were relatively successful , were completely scrapped in a record 4 years.

This is the least future proof regulations that F1 has ever had. The PU and car is a rolling contradiction.

If Audi , Honda and Ford are just getting whooped by Mercedes for the first 2 years , these mfgers will start looking for an exit. Audi came into F1 before the Ukraine Russia war. And this was before all the sanctions , counter sanctions and higher gas prices. If they are running round at the back going nowhere , they'll leave. This is why Renault left.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Even in road use, a "hybrid" transmissions allows the ice to operate at its peak efficiency for most or all of the time. The most efficient package would be a charged engine. A charged engine will also be lighter than NA and have lower friction losses.

This is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing. Not the pinnacle of environmental gimmicks.

With this kind of talk , there could be a split in F1. Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari might want to start a breakaway series if F1 keeps getting carried away down this environmental considerations road.

Even if they don't , a competing series could spring up. And all it would take is one major to go across the isle and that would present a huge threat to the status quo of F1