Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Bill]

Does Mercedes have the most powerful engine or is the McLaren chassis/aero just superior to others?

Any websites that have info on power numbers for the engines?

I've read rumors that Honda might be behind on the 2026 engine, is this true?

They do not. All engines are within 1-2%. Considering how at terminal speed the cars are consuming 750-800hp in aero drag, and a small aero change is worth more in “consuming” horsepower than there are differences in the PU’s, aero is the overriding factor. *

Any websites that do are just guesses. But generally the PU’s are in the neighborhood of 800bhp (flywheel). Source

Rumors are just that. Anyone can make anything up and call it a rumor.

* remember, in F1 the way to go faster is you make the PU more powerful to add downforce (which is subsequently drag). If you look, F1 cars have been seeing terminal velocities near the same for decades, however, current F1 cars produce a lot more downforce. That downforce comes at the expense of more drag. If you look at estimated / published drag numbers of former F1 cars, they have about the same aero drag as a cargo van / box truck.

if Mercedes has the most powerful pu why is Mercedes team not winning consistently, applying a little bit of imagination will answer your question.

[etusch]

Does Mercedes have the most powerful engine or is the McLaren chassis/aero just superior to others?

Any websites that have info on power numbers for the engines?

I've read rumors that Honda might be behind on the 2026 engine, is this true?

When F1 start using a set of tyres for whole race in 2005, dominant race car of 2004 left behind suddenly. Ferrari used updated version of the 2004 car for a few races. So not much difference with the car and especially with the engines. So, we can say that most affective performance differentiator was tyres that year. Michelin's tyres were better than Bridgestone. I also think same thing for 2004 years too. I think 2004 Bar Honda car was good enough to fight with 2004 Ferrari car for the WCC. but Bridgestone tyres were better. This is why they cannot fight in the level of car.

When you look this year's qualifications, 4 team's cars are close, they are close even at first laps. But then McLaren starts to putt its advantage, tyre managements. If all other things are in same level, then what is better than others make difference. If it is engine, engine, if tyres, or if downforce.
I read somethings saying Redbull is good fast turns but not good at slow ones. Many variables.

[Tommy Cookers]

the above is very nice etc but ....
the engine maker's idea of 50% thermal efficiency is via the conventional representation and strictly that is fakery
because they use a false measure of the fuel's energy content - the Lower Heating Value LHV
this ignores eg the latent heat trapped in the water vapour and dumped in the exhaust process
so the '50% efficient' gasoline-fuelled engine is truly about 46% efficient
and a '50% efficient' hydrogen-fuelled engine is truly about 42% efficient

the heating industry uses the same false energy accounting ....
and heating systems that recover such latent heat are presented via these (legal but false) counts as eg 105% efficient

[Snorked]

Ralf Bach says Honda are doing something different compared to the others with their 2026 battery.



I hope they chose the right path

[lio007]

Impressive facilities in Sakura:

https://www.grada3.com/2025/08/20/exclu ... tor-honda/

[GhostF1]

Random question. Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

Has anyone else noticed the Honda's seem to burn through the Exhaust allocation per season? They always seem to go through all 8 allowed under the regulations. Where the other 3 rarely do, seems to always be the way during a season.

Merc average: 3
Renault average: 6
Ferrari average: 6
Honda average: 8

Inherent to how the ICE is run or is it just for the sake of being as optimal as possible do we think? If anything, impressive Merc has only used 3 and rarely goes beyond in a season.

[Vappy]

Random question. Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

Has anyone else noticed the Honda's seem to burn through the Exhaust allocation per season? They always seem to go through all 8 allowed under the regulations. Where the other 3 rarely do, seems to always be the way during a season.

Merc average: 3
Renault average: 6
Ferrari average: 6
Honda average: 8

Inherent to how the ICE is run or is it just for the sake of being as optimal as possible do we think? If anything, impressive Merc has only used 3 and rarely goes beyond in a season.

They're the most noisy engines on part throttle or off throttle entirely when at speed. I suspect it's their approach to additional energy recovery through the MGU-H, generating more heat in the exhaust, pushing the wear on it further than other teams.

[AR3-GP]

Random question. Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

Has anyone else noticed the Honda's seem to burn through the Exhaust allocation per season? They always seem to go through all 8 allowed under the regulations. Where the other 3 rarely do, seems to always be the way during a season.

Merc average: 3
Renault average: 6
Ferrari average: 6
Honda average: 8

Inherent to how the ICE is run or is it just for the sake of being as optimal as possible do we think? If anything, impressive Merc has only used 3 and rarely goes beyond in a season.

In theory you should design the lightest exhaust system possible. That comes with the downside of reliability. So it's possible that Honda simply used parts with a smaller safety factor to keep weight low.

Mercedes could have chosen to use a more robust design because they supply 4 teams. It's logistically much more complex to use up 8 exhaust per car across 4 teams than it is for just 2. Merc also doesn't make any money selling PUs. A slightly more robust design (more weight) is probably a better tradeoff between the cost efficiency and performance.

[diffuser]

Random question. Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

Has anyone else noticed the Honda's seem to burn through the Exhaust allocation per season? They always seem to go through all 8 allowed under the regulations. Where the other 3 rarely do, seems to always be the way during a season.

Merc average: 3
Renault average: 6
Ferrari average: 6
Honda average: 8

Inherent to how the ICE is run or is it just for the sake of being as optimal as possible do we think? If anything, impressive Merc has only used 3 and rarely goes beyond in a season.

In theory you should design the lightest exhaust system possible. That comes with the downside of reliability. So it's possible that Honda simply used parts with a smaller safety factor to keep weight low.

Mercedes could have chosen to use a more robust design because they supply 4 teams. It's logistically much more complex to use up 8 exhaust per car across 4 teams than it is for just 2. Merc also doesn't make any money selling PUs. A slightly more robust design (more weight) is probably a better tradeoff between the cost efficiency and performance.

That's interesting ....
Don't know if this is still true but I believe pre 22 regs that RBR had asked for the exhaust to come up from underneath the PU. So that might not be true but it still might be some packaging request from RBR that's limiting the life of the exhaust ?

[AR3-GP]

In the startup video, there's a counter which changes from 71 to 72. It's probably not the first startup of this engine. The teaser is just a dog and pony show.

[diffuser]

Ralf Bach says Honda are doing something different compared to the others with their 2026 battery.



I hope they chose the right path

Honda have been using batteries in F1 since 2014. They know what to expect had they gone down the same path.

[Snorked]

https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... 03/f12026/

How is the development and manufacturing status of the 2026 power unit?

It is at the stage of fixing the specifications once for the pre-opening test and starting assembly (as of the first week of December). However, since the homologation (approval and certification) is at the end of February, I think we will continue to develop until the last minute.


Honda said, "We have set a high target value that cannot be achieved unless we achieve a fairly large breakthrough." Did you have that goal?

Just as we can't grasp the situation of rival manufacturers, it's a battle to get closer to the target value we've set ourselves, but to be honest, we still need time.

While having various balls, we are developing while accumulating how much performance will increase by adding each ball, but some are going well, and some have failed when you think it went well, there are many things.


The reports are mixed, such as that only Mercedes AMG is doing well.

To be honest, not everything is going well, so there are a lot of parts that are suffering, but it's not like something fatal happens and can't be helped. In the midst of that, we are solemnly focusing on improving performance and reliability.

[FNTC]

I was a bit confused about the "balls" so ran it through Grok to translate, I think it makes a bit more sense:

We have various 'bullets' (ideas/options), and we're progressing development by stacking up how much performance improves when we implement each one, but there are things that are going well, others that we thought were successful but turned out to be failures, and all sorts in between."

Reports are conflicting, saying things like only Mercedes-AMG is succeeding, or only Mercedes-AMG and Honda, or that other manufacturers are struggling in certain areas."

To be honest, not everything goes smoothly, so there are plenty of areas where we're struggling, but nothing fatal has happened that's made it impossible to proceed. In the midst of that, we're steadily focusing on improving performance and reliability.

[diffuser]

In the startup video, there's a counter which changes from 71 to 72. It's probably not the first startup of this engine. The teaser is just a dog and pony show.

https://i.postimg.cc/NMjMWkKF/image.png

https://i.postimg.cc/QNB5CjMQ/image.png

How do you know it started the first 71 times they hit the button?

[GhostF1]

Power unit silhouette??