2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Badger
Badger
12
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

Emag wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 20:25
I made this comment in the RedBull team thread, but I think here it's more appropriate :

I don’t really know engine hardware enough to understand the implied consequences. So, if we assume FIA decides they don’t agree with this, would Mercedes and RBPT be heavily compromised like what happened to Ferrari’s 2020 power units after 2019?

Or is this more of a “quick patch” that just switches off this presumed advantage and they can go ahead run with the same designs?
It would be very hard to change now because teams are already building up their engine pool and it would require fundamental changes to the internal design. Between RBPT and HPP they need to deliver 24 engines to Melbourne, and some engines for testing before that. That work doesn't start a week before the race. Add to that designing and validating this patch on a dyno, no way, that's several months of work.

But I think it's unlikely they will need to patch anything, the measurement process here is quite clear. Perhaps a better question is how fast can the others upgrade their engines?

dialtone
dialtone
127
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

Badger wrote:
But I think it's unlikely they will need to patch anything, the measurement process here is quite clear. Perhaps a better question is how fast can the others upgrade their engines?
You think it’s months of work to revert this, but ask how fast can the rest upgrade when they’re going to even need a new fuel to prevent knocking, and new fuel typically means new cylinder head too.

Badger
Badger
12
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

dialtone wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:19
Badger wrote:
But I think it's unlikely they will need to patch anything, the measurement process here is quite clear. Perhaps a better question is how fast can the others upgrade their engines?
You think it’s months of work to revert this, but ask how fast can the rest upgrade when they’re going to even need a new fuel to prevent knocking, and new fuel typically means new cylinder head too.
I don't believe they will have to revert anything, which makes my question relevant.

User avatar
Wouter
114
Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

selvam_e2002 wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 20:56
so we ill have teams MEC and the engine used by the team like, Williams, Mclaren, Renault along with RB will be in good position
compared to Audi and Honda..... I really feel for Alonso, it is never worked out for him with Honda.
I am expecting GP2 again from him.....
.
Did you read the message from @Wazari?

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewt ... 0#p1315030

User avatar
sucof
34
Joined: 23 Nov 2012, 12:15

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

proteus wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 19:52
sucof wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 14:29
Tommy Cookers wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 13:33

capping max horsepower (in a fuel rate limit formula) is capping ICE efficiency (in an efficiency formula)
Sorry but this is not an argument even.
Like any part of your argument is written in diamonds by god itself...
The FIA can do whatever they want, including the teams.
The FIA have repeatedly said, when there will be huge differences between engines, they will act.
And regardless of this, they still can. They just have to want it.

If the teams in question have a brain, they will probably limit their engines so that it will not be deemed too much stronger than the competition, so they will retain some benefit. If their engine will be deemed too much more powerful the FIA will probably step in.
If they step in and limit the engines, then they should simply close the doors and dispand the sport. In what universe is this even considered as good and competitive?

The best thing is that at every race they start to give away participation medals to the drivers instead of podiums and points. Everyone is a winner....

Ever since they decided they want to run a budget racing series (even before official budget cap) the whole sport started to look like a kids show. This will take it to a whole new level of that.

Ban the engine suppliers then, chuck in a generic engine. There is no use to have suppliers in the sport if they are basically forced to curb themself, or being handicaped by the governing body.
Then take a look again at this sport. It is already highly regulated. Because a sport is by definition is something that is governed by rules. Rules create the sport, not vice versa.
It is the rules that create true competition.

So no, limiting the engines till they close or fix the loophole, is the most logical and fair, sport like solution.
Based on your wishes, it would be wild west, and a team would be seconds faster than the rest, the last teams will be seconds slower than the midfield, it would be chaos and zero true competition. It would be super boring.

And what you need to understand is that the intention of any rule in F1 and in sports in general is even more important than the rule itself.
Meaning, if they created that rule, thinking no engine shall have higher than 16:1 compression ratio, then even if they failed to write the rule well or create the perfect controlling, it is still against the intention of the rules if a team succeeds to overcome it.
Hence a change is inevitable. Either by changing the rule or the measurement. And till then, it is super easy to cap the max horsepower, as otherwise, teams that went agains the intention of the rule will have an unfair advantage.

dialtone
dialtone
127
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

Badger wrote:
dialtone wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:19
Badger wrote:
But I think it's unlikely they will need to patch anything, the measurement process here is quite clear. Perhaps a better question is how fast can the others upgrade their engines?
You think it’s months of work to revert this, but ask how fast can the rest upgrade when they’re going to even need a new fuel to prevent knocking, and new fuel typically means new cylinder head too.
I don't believe they will have to revert anything, which makes my question relevant.
Ah I understand, fair enough.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

Redbull PT and Merc PT has same trick. Redbull have many people from Merc engine department. So what about current merc engine ? Only flaw of my theory is Andy Cowell. If it is my theory's flaw, or these two manufacturer's flaw.

If rule says 16:1 exceeding it is not a gray area. If so why they banned ferrari to use their well knows very powerfull engine ? It was just a gray area. At the end if you can decieve tests, it is legal right ? Legality is all about not being catched.

Badger
Badger
12
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

etusch wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:43
If rule says 16:1 exceeding it is not a gray area. If so why they banned ferrari to use their well knows very powerfull engine ? It was just a gray area. At the end if you can decieve tests, it is legal right ? Legality is all about not being catched.
Thermal expansion is unavoidable so you must choose a temperature at which the engine is measured and homologated, and they do it at ambient temperature. I would guess that every single engine on the grid will run above 16:1 CR when they are hot, it's just that two of them may have gone much further in this regard through clever design.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

Badger wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:55
etusch wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:43
If rule says 16:1 exceeding it is not a gray area. If so why they banned ferrari to use their well knows very powerfull engine ? It was just a gray area. At the end if you can decieve tests, it is legal right ? Legality is all about not being catched.
Thermal expansion is unavoidable so you must choose a temperature at which the engine is measured and homologated, and they do it at ambient temperature. I would guess that every single engine on the grid will run above 16:1 CR when they are hot, it's just that two of them may have gone much further in this regard through clever design.
If it is naturall exceed it is not problem but a designed exceed it is problem. And when air got heat, it's density also changes. So this much exceed of compression should be designed.

Badger
Badger
12
Joined: 22 Sep 2025, 17:00

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

etusch wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 22:23
Badger wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:55
etusch wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:43
If rule says 16:1 exceeding it is not a gray area. If so why they banned ferrari to use their well knows very powerfull engine ? It was just a gray area. At the end if you can decieve tests, it is legal right ? Legality is all about not being catched.
Thermal expansion is unavoidable so you must choose a temperature at which the engine is measured and homologated, and they do it at ambient temperature. I would guess that every single engine on the grid will run above 16:1 CR when they are hot, it's just that two of them may have gone much further in this regard through clever design.
If it is naturall exceed it is not problem but a designed exceed it is problem. And when air got heat, it's density also changes. So this much exceed of compression should be designed.
I don't see it as a problematic design unless the FIA specifically bans it. What it does establish is that the ambient temperature measurement is the standard.

User avatar
AR3-GP
404
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

etusch wrote:
20 Dec 2025, 21:43
Redbull PT and Merc PT has same trick. Redbull have many people from Merc engine department. So what about current merc engine ? Only flaw of my theory is Andy Cowell. If it is my theory's flaw, or these two manufacturer's flaw.
I also think the link fails because of Andy Cowell. It's a proper coincidence that Merc and RBPT have developed similar ideas.
Beware of T-Rex

LM10
LM10
124
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

dialtone wrote:
19 Dec 2025, 23:17
Easy ban. Not even much to think about. Of course that’s if we were talking about Ferrari, in all other cases instead it’s all legal.
My thoughts exactly. In case of Ferrari it’s cheating and in case of others it’s clever engineering. :lol:

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

The rumour is weak sauce.

There is a thread on altering compression ratio by non-mechanical means already and it was deemed that cheating with expanding pistons or expanding valves, sparkplugs would be a real problem that would compromise the material strength itself (even if it doesn't break the rules!)
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

User avatar
AR3-GP
404
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post

LM10 wrote:
21 Dec 2025, 00:18
dialtone wrote:
19 Dec 2025, 23:17
Easy ban. Not even much to think about. Of course that’s if we were talking about Ferrari, in all other cases instead it’s all legal.
My thoughts exactly. In case of Ferrari it’s cheating and in case of others it’s clever engineering. :lol:
There has never been an official comment on 2019. Anything that's been reported was speculation.
Beware of T-Rex

User avatar
AR3-GP
404
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

Post



The amount of extra stroke required to increase the compression ratio from 16 to 18 is around 0.4mm. That's not much.

this channel speculates that the expansion is done in the cylinder head, not the piston.
Beware of T-Rex